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Thread: De'marquis!

  1. #11
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    We all know that the apologists for this behavior begin with those who benefit the most from the behavior - those who are employed in Human Services & draw a steady paycheck for fixing nothing.
    That statement is outrageously so full of crap. It is like saying engineers build airplanes that crash so they will have an opportunity to build more for a paycheck.
    Zeus

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  2. #12
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    Well maybe you haven't seen everything. I know one that went bad, for a long time despite involved active parents. Eventually that person got their act together and now teaches high school ESL in the Bronxs. None of your factors applied.
    NUmber one is Having SPAWN out of wedlock end of story. Kids having kids and ripping off the taxpayer!
    The story here is without good parenting, that life would likely have not have come together. He had some resiliency that came from good parenting.

    But, maybe, on your next planet everyone will have to have a license to spawn a kid. It will be a rule on mine.
    Zeus

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  3. #13
    Senior Member GaryJ's Avatar
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    As a product of a broken home in the late 50's I agree parenting is key but there is more. I was raised in what would be called an abusive environment today. At the end of the day it is about choices. We choose what we want to believe. We choose how we behave. We are what we think.
    Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

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    Senior Member Raymond Little's Avatar
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    Jungle names are quite popular in some cultures and the arrest blotter in most local papers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    That statement is outrageously so full of crap. It is like saying engineers build airplanes that crash so they will have an opportunity to build more for a paycheck.
    In the late 70's I was a candidate for the state legislature - one day someone from the DSHS union shows up to interview me unannounced - though I was busy I granted them that interview - questions were mainly about full employment for the SW employees & what programs, such as B-1 should be on the chopping block before employees were.

    You got one point for answering a question (there were 20) & then points, up to 5 for what they perceived as the correct answer. I received a 34 on their questionaire, the next closest was a 57, with scores in the high 70's for the more conservative (by WA standards) R's. I know what the questions were & I know how I answered them - for you to post that these programs aren't about full employment for the employees is ludicrous.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    That statement is outrageously so full of crap. It is like saying engineers build airplanes that crash so they will have an opportunity to build more for a paycheck.
    Although I have no statistics and no anecdotes to make the point, I have to believe that there ARE people with a vested interest in seeing these programs continue even though most visible evidence seems to indicate that they are NOT particularly successful in moving people off the dole and into productive lives.

    I, for one, would really like to see the folks on public assistance engaged in positive activities like picking up litter, cleaning graffiti, repairing facilities in parks and so on, much like the CCC of the depression. I would also put bigger restrictions on what can be purchased with food stamps. Mostly dry beans, rice, and powdered milk.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    I know a lot of people who match large percentages of your list describing De'Marquis Elkins. I would like to suggest though that none of that matters. It is hard enough to shoot someone. It takes a special type of person to put a gun into a babies face and pull the trigger. It is human nature to want to care for a child, our brains are wired to react to a baby crying, or empathy when a child gets sick or even dies it is some how magnified at least 10 fold. De'Marquis Elkins lacks that ability to be human. Millions of people share his circumstances and yet this crime is unique to him. Born evil or maybe just a psychopath I don't really know, but this person was twisted from the inside.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

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    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryJ View Post
    As a product of a broken home in the late 50's I agree parenting is key but there is more. I was raised in what would be called an abusive environment today. At the end of the day it is about choices. We choose what we want to believe. We choose how we behave. We are what we think.
    What he said.
    Matt McKenzie

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  9. #19
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Although I have no statistics and no anecdotes to make the point, I have to believe that there ARE people with a vested interest in seeing these programs continue even though most visible evidence seems to indicate that they are NOT particularly successful in moving people off the dole and into productive lives.

    I, for one, would really like to see the folks on public assistance engaged in positive activities like picking up litter, cleaning graffiti, repairing facilities in parks and so on, much like the CCC of the depression. I would also put bigger restrictions on what can be purchased with food stamps. Mostly dry beans, rice, and powdered milk.
    Most states have enacted lifetime limits to the dole--ranging from 2 to 5 years. In Minnesota, a parent(s) could have their children removed from the home if they exhaust benefits without securing a means of support. The programs are there to help people through tough times not to be a way of life. Most recipients are white single mothers recently divorced with one or two children. They average about 2 years as a recipient. As for the welfare queens, I ran into a few -not a lot- but I have as much disdain as you do for these folks.

    Our agency had a set up where the Job Service was next to the front door. Anyone applying for assistance would first have to register with them before they could submit an application for assistance. While on assistance, they had to attend 20 hours of in the Job Service office doing class work to hone their job seeking skills or working with counselors developing resumes and doing a job search on the computers there. When I retired they were going to extend that to 30 hours--no sitting on the couch watching Ellen and Oprah. If they were unemployed for more than six months they were assigned to public works projects of the kind you describe.

    The payments to vendors is THE major expense in the welfare system. Judges will order people to drug/alcohol treatment, to mental health treatment, family counseling, foster care, etc. Those things are never cheap. The state (Michigan) wanted to move our office after a Khadafi front organization bought our building. The grocery store owner across the street pulled enough strings to kill the move. People might spend their checks and food stamps elsewhere.

    If there is one area I am critical of unions is their resistance to assigning recipients to public works projects. While I understand where the unions are coming from, the experience helps people to acquire the job skills they need to move up the ladder. I am a big time advocate for CCC type opportunities for unemployed youth. The CCC not also did projects that still serve the nation 80 years hence, it was also a program to curb urban crime by giving young people something to do. If you talk to old CCCers, they point bck to that experience with much pride. It also provided a nucleus for a victorious army in WW II. The camps were run by sergeants from the army.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 07-31-2013 at 08:58 AM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Most states have enacted lifetime limits to the dole--ranging from 2 to 5 years. In Minnesota, a parent(s) could have their children removed from the home if they exhaust benefits without securing a means of support. The programs are there to help people through tough times not to be a way of life. Most recipients are white single mothers recently divorced with one or two children. They average about 2 years as a recipient. As for the welfare queens, I ran into a few -not a lot- but I have as much disdain as you do for these folks.

    Our agency had a set up where the Job Service was next to the front door. Anyone applying for assistance would first have to register with them before they could submit an application for assistance. While on assistance, they had to attend 20 hours of in the Job Service office doing class work to hone their job seeking skills or working with counselors developing resumes and doing a job search on the computers there. When I retired they were going to extend that to 30 hours--no sitting on the couch watching Ellen and Oprah. If they were unemployed for more than six months they were assigned to public works projects of the kind you describe.

    The payments to vendors is THE major expense in the welfare system. Judges will order people to drug/alcohol treatment, to mental health treatment, family counseling, foster care, etc. Those things are never cheap. The state (Michigan) wanted to move our office after a Khadafi front organization bought our building. The grocery store owner across the street pulled enough strings to kill the move. People might spend their checks and food stamps elsewhere.

    If there is one area I am critical of unions is their resistance to assigning recipients to public works projects. While I understand where the unions are coming from, the experience helps people to acquire the job skills they need to move up the ladder. I am a big time advocate for CCC type opportunities for unemployed youth. The CCC not also did projects that still serve the nation 80 years hence, it was also a program to curb urban crime by giving young people something to do. If you talk to old CCCers, they point bck to that experience with much pride. It also provided a nucleus for a victorious army in WW II. The camps were run by sergeants from the army.
    First, Zeus, I don't doubt your sincerity in your belief in these programs. Second, I would not expect any difference in the work ethic of employees who administer these programs and the employees of other sectors of the economy. What I do believe is these programs don't work no matter what additional rules and regulations are added to these programs.

    Let us go back to 1965 with the passage of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society Program. A program proclaimed to be the vehicle of eliminating poverty. After many trillions of dollars, do you believe there is less poverty today than in 1965? Do you believe that there is less unemployment as a percent of population than in 1965? Do you believe there are less people on welfare as a pecentage of population than in 1965? How about food stamps, dissability, workman's comp,single mother births, medicaid, just to name a few things. And we have spent trillions upon trillions to eliminate these things and they have actually soared. Personally I would not say a word about the money HAD THE PROGRAMS WORKED, but the FACT is they have made the situation WORSE and to top it off have cost trillions of dollars. I do not understand why those who supported these programs refuse to acknowledge that these programs simply don't work and their excuse is always that they must be made bigger rather than eliminated.

    One thing that is obvious to me on this forum is that people do not like being told what they can do nor what they must do. Increasingly I see a growth in the number of those who wish to use the gov. to tell the OTHER person what they can do and what they must do. I son't think they realize that when they do not protect the freedoms of those who differ from them that eventually they will see their freedoms also lost. I give as an example the statement "we are the 99%". Are not the freedoms of the 1%(and I am not in the 1%), just as important as my freedoms? Will we next hear "we are the 98%! How about "we are the 51%?

    I remember when I had worked for 5 years for IBM and decided that was not what I wanted to do and wanted to make a change. By then I had made up my mind as to those things that I wanted in life. There were three things that were important to me. 1. I wanted to work for myself. 2. I wanted to be able to live where I wanted. 3. I wanted the OPPORTUNITY to make a good living. First I thought about a PHD economics. Nope, couldn't live where I wanted. Second, I thought about buying a francise such as McDonalds. Nope, didn't have enough money nor proper experience. Then I thought about dentistry. Has no idea if I would like it but it could meet my requirements. My father was totally against it(risk?) and practically didn't speak to me till I graduated. I simply made up my mind to try it and was willing to accept the consequences had it not worked out, understanding the greater the risk the greater the reward.

    There can be no opportunity for success unless there if opportunity for failure. For without the opportunity for failure, there can be no success. I once heard the deffinition of a successful person is one who gets up the last time he(she) falls down. Best definiton I have ever heard.

    I do believe that all these gov. programs do nothing but try to eliminate failure therefore eliminating success. THAT is the fundamental reason for such programs' failures.

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