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Thread: De'marquis!

  1. #31
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    I missed that part about the schools. You say that you are totally against programs that don't work, yet you say that schools "HAVE" to teach basic life skills. Do you REALLY BELIEVE that idea has Worked???????

    Simple question and can be answered with a yes or no.
    It hasn't been tried much. You have some suggestions that have a chance at working? As I said above, I don't have all the answers and I don't run this planet.

    It's been an interesting debate but I have to cut out. I am running and working a field trial this weekend and have to get somethings squared away. See ya all!
    Last edited by zeus3925; 08-01-2013 at 11:32 AM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Working with people is an inexact art, Cary. A used car salesmen doesn't sell make a sale to every customer that comes in. Not every case will be a complete success but doing nothing will be a complete disaster.
    Zeus, we all like to make excuses for failure but hopefully, very few get away with it. Take your car salesman for instance. He doesn't make enough car sales to make a profit? He is fired. I gave you some statistics as the state of the country now and 1965. Given that performance I would say that whoever came up with that plan should be fired AND THE PLAN JUNKED!

    You say doing nothing will be a complete disaster, well what the country HAS done is a complete disaster, no matter how you try to color it.

    I will give you 4 ides for change.

    1. TAKE CONTROL AWAY FROM GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS! that means social workers, and all those regulators who sit around making up new rules and regulations, necessary for them to keep their jobs. Give the power of choosing to those who seek help.

    2. How do they do that? Here are examples. They had a program to allow needy, specifically black children in Washington DC to CHOOSE to go to private schools, taking only those funds allocated for that child, AND ATTEND THE SCHOOL OF THEIR CHOICE. Results were spectacular, UNTIL the current President chose to terminate the program and FORCE those kids who were succeeding to return to the cesspools they called the public schools of DC.

    3. Take the example of the teacher in Chicago during the Reagan Administration. She ran a 1 room 12 year school taking only those children that the Chicago School System had mostly suspended, basically those that were the worst of the worst. She REFUSED to take Gov. money knownig that she would have to live with the rules of the Gov. Parents were pleading for her to take their delinquent kids. She literally ran the school on charity.

    4. Roy Innis, the founder of The congress of Racial Equallity, offered to take children out of the public school system of Chicago and ONLY take 1/2 the money spent on their education and see THAT THEY GOT A BETTER EDUCATION! Incidently Roy Innis was one of the most militant blacks during the civil rights movement during the 60's. Not to worry, the beloved Teachers Union would have none of that.


    Lastly, the gov always seeks to restrict individual freedoms and assume power. As I have said, most gov employees are not bad people nor are they incompentant. Thay have just been assigned a task that is impossible to accomplish governmentally. Take you for example. You bemoan the big elephant in the black robe usurping your power to accomplish your impossible task. The elephant in the black robe bemoans your failure to accomplish your task without his intervention. And sadly, tragically those most affected, those you are supposed to help only suffer and become more and more dependant on the gov. having only to tolerate your rules, regulations and power.

    Again I think you are sincere in your beliefs. I think you truly want to see those of such dire straights, succeed. I just think that your ideas are totally wrong and are, as history of the facts say, a total disaster.
    Last edited by caryalsobrook; 08-01-2013 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    I never said all these programs were successful. In my area of practice I knew what worked for me and my clientele. And if I did not have live up to expectation of success, I would get fired. It was not my duty to make people dependent on me or the government. Just the opposite. The objective was a family that functioned. Every case I could close and not come back was a victory.

    Have I seen some harebrained schemes? Sure. Have I seen things that work? Certainly.

    Read more carefully, Cary. The gorilla in black robes was my big stick, but I avoided him where possible. By the way, social workers don't make laws, rules or regulations. They have to put up with them like everyone else.

    There is no government on earth that is devoid of laws rules and regulation, save anarchy. It is the function of government to regulate. If you find one that doesn't let me know. I'll visit my local gun shop before I emigrate.

    As for charter schools, the ones in Minnesota have been a failure. Everyone of them has not been up to measure. The Catholic and Lutheran schools do very well. The common denominator is parents that care.

    Cary, it is obvious you really don't know that much about the Social Service system. You might study up on it before you issue comments based on assumptions, anecdotes, and common myth.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 08-01-2013 at 01:01 PM.
    Zeus

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post

    4. Roy Innis, the founder of The congress of Racial Equallity, offered to take children out of the public school system of Chicago and ONLY take 1/2 the money spent on their education and see THAT THEY GOT A BETTER EDUCATION! Incidently Roy Innis was one of the most militant blacks during the civil rights movement during the 60's. Not to worry, the beloved Teachers Union would have none of that..
    Are we talking about the same Roy Innis that wanted to segregate school children, marched through school building threatening white teachers (because white teachers have no business teaching black students), was arrested for taking over the teachers union building, had his thugs blocking white teachers from trying to leave hostile meetings? Wow, can't believe why the Teachers Union would oppose such a guy, buy all means open up the check book to his kind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    Are we talking about the same Roy Innis that wanted to segregate school children, marched through school building threatening white teachers (because white teachers have no business teaching black students), was arrested for taking over the teachers union building, had his thugs blocking white teachers from trying to leave hostile meetings? Wow, can't believe why the Teachers Union would oppose such a guy, buy all means open up the check book to his kind.
    First, I am not aware of the incident nor place or time of the event you speak. I do find it ironic that you speak of his wanting to segregate children from white teachers when his plan was to put the children in CATHOLIC schools. You can correct me if I am wrong but not being Catholic, my perception is that there are far more whites than blacks, especially nuns who are primarily the teachers of their schools.

    You speak of him being arrested for taking over the Teachers' Union building and he was arrested as he should have been if you are correct. Now tell me if the Teachers' Union of Chicago is all white or even predominately white. My belief is that it is not. Now answer me a question. How many teachers from the Wisconsin Teachers' Union, white or black were arrested when they took over the State House of Wisconsin when It was trying to conduct business. NONE THAT I KNOW OF!!!!!! You state "No wonder the Teachers' Union would oppose such a man." I will state, "No wonder such a man would oppose the Teachers' Union." SO WOULD I !!!!!!!!!!!

    We have seen what the likes of opening up the check books toJesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and we have seen the results. It is hard to believe that ANYBODY other than them could do worse. At LEAST it would be a change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    We sorta live in Mayberry - ?
    Mayberry IS NOT SAFE after dark! It happens to be very high in crime! Oh I'm talking about the town that Mayberry was based on.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    But, maybe, on your next planet everyone will have to have a license to spawn a kid. It will be a rule on mine.
    One could only hope. At the very least taxpayers should only be forced to pay for one spawn, but even one is too much. You breed it you feed it!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    First, Zeus, I don't doubt your sincerity in your belief in these programs. Second, I would not expect any difference in the work ethic of employees who administer these programs and the employees of other sectors of the economy. What I do believe is these programs don't work no matter what additional rules and regulations are added to these programs.

    Let us go back to 1965 with the passage of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society Program. A program proclaimed to be the vehicle of eliminating poverty. After many trillions of dollars, do you believe there is less poverty today than in 1965? Do you believe that there is less unemployment as a percent of population than in 1965? Do you believe there are less people on welfare as a pecentage of population than in 1965? How about food stamps, dissability, workman's comp,single mother births, medicaid, just to name a few things. And we have spent trillions upon trillions to eliminate these things and they have actually soared. Personally I would not say a word about the money HAD THE PROGRAMS WORKED, but the FACT is they have made the situation WORSE and to top it off have cost trillions of dollars. I do not understand why those who supported these programs refuse to acknowledge that these programs simply don't work and their excuse is always that they must be made bigger rather than eliminated.

    One thing that is obvious to me on this forum is that people do not like being told what they can do nor what they must do. Increasingly I see a growth in the number of those who wish to use the gov. to tell the OTHER person what they can do and what they must do. I son't think they realize that when they do not protect the freedoms of those who differ from them that eventually they will see their freedoms also lost. I give as an example the statement "we are the 99%". Are not the freedoms of the 1%(and I am not in the 1%), just as important as my freedoms? Will we next hear "we are the 98%! How about "we are the 51%?

    I remember when I had worked for 5 years for IBM and decided that was not what I wanted to do and wanted to make a change. By then I had made up my mind as to those things that I wanted in life. There were three things that were important to me. 1. I wanted to work for myself. 2. I wanted to be able to live where I wanted. 3. I wanted the OPPORTUNITY to make a good living. First I thought about a PHD economics. Nope, couldn't live where I wanted. Second, I thought about buying a francise such as McDonalds. Nope, didn't have enough money nor proper experience. Then I thought about dentistry. Has no idea if I would like it but it could meet my requirements. My father was totally against it(risk?) and practically didn't speak to me till I graduated. I simply made up my mind to try it and was willing to accept the consequences had it not worked out, understanding the greater the risk the greater the reward.

    There can be no opportunity for success unless there if opportunity for failure. For without the opportunity for failure, there can be no success. I once heard the deffinition of a successful person is one who gets up the last time he(she) falls down. Best definiton I have ever heard.

    I do believe that all these gov. programs do nothing but try to eliminate failure therefore eliminating success. THAT is the fundamental reason for such programs' failures.
    I can tell ypu for a fact that the welfare leaches that I was forced to pay for while owning my condo in CT that moved in across from me and below mw did not work at all. BS SECTION 8 CRAP!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    First, I am not aware of the incident nor place or time of the event you speak. I do find it ironic that you speak of his wanting to segregate children from white teachers when his plan was to put the children in CATHOLIC schools. You can correct me if I am wrong but not being Catholic, my perception is that there are far more whites than blacks, especially nuns who are primarily the teachers of their schools.

    You speak of him being arrested for taking over the Teachers' Union building and he was arrested as he should have been if you are correct. Now tell me if the Teachers' Union of Chicago is all white or even predominately white. My belief is that it is not. Now answer me a question. How many teachers from the Wisconsin Teachers' Union, white or black were arrested when they took over the State House of Wisconsin when It was trying to conduct business. NONE THAT I KNOW OF!!!!!! You state "No wonder the Teachers' Union would oppose such a man." I will state, "No wonder such a man would oppose the Teachers' Union." SO WOULD I !!!!!!!!!!!

    We have seen what the likes of opening up the check books toJesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and we have seen the results. It is hard to believe that ANYBODY other than them could do worse. At LEAST it would be a change.
    It was in 1964 when him and Sonny Carlson and their mobs of militants walked the halls of Bedford-Stuyvesant schools threatening white teachers. Do some reading up on him, basically scum of the earth if he was white he would have held the position as Grand Wizard. He is an activist like Jackson or Al Sharpton and did so with violence, I can't imagine like giving a man like that more power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    It was in 1964 when him and Sonny Carlson and their mobs of militants walked the halls of Bedford-Stuyvesant schools threatening white teachers. Do some reading up on him, basically scum of the earth if he was white he would have held the position as Grand Wizard. He is an activist like Jackson or Al Sharpton and did so with violence, I can't imagine like giving a man like that more power.
    I wondered if you might be talking about him 50 years ago, oh my mistake 49 years ago. I said in the 60's, he was a militant man and yes he was an angry man and I didn't and don't now blame him. He saw his children told they could not play on the playground, a public gov. playground, no matter how well they conducted themselves. No need to review the past 50 years ago, not only in the south but in the north, take Boston for example.

    I grew up in a very, very small southern town. No matter if I brought home a very poor friend with ragged clothes or the boy from the most wealthy family, they were treated with dignity and respect and all were invited to eat. My parents taught me to treat everybody with dignity and respect until they proved they did not deserve it. While playing baseball on the only public playground in town, two black boys came to play and were promptly told by the supervisor that they were not allowed to play there. Even at a very young age, I knew that something was wrong. They had done nothing to be treated with no dignity or respect. That went against what my parents had taught me. I never forgot it. I wonder how I would have felt after growing up and had experienced the same thing.

    I can imagine the tongue lashing you would get were you to equate him to Jessie or Al. he sees this country in an entirely different light than them. He has no patience with those who whine that they can't get a job. I have heard him say that if you are black and get an education even if you have to educate yourself. If you do not have 10 lbs. of bling and wear your pants to your knees. If you have no tattoos, nose rings and rings everywhere else. If you do these things, put on a suit and tie and SPEAK proper English, YOU WILL GET A JOB. In fact because of affirmative action you have a BETTER chance for a job. If you listened to him today, that is what you would hear.

    When I worked for IBM in the 60's I was lucky to meet so of those militants. I found them highly patriotic and very angry. They were highly motivated and extremely determined to succeed. They only asked to be judged by the same standard as everybody else. I found them highly confident they would succeed were they so judged .
    Last edited by caryalsobrook; 08-02-2013 at 04:29 PM.

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