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Thread: Another well written commentary about our sad situation.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Default Another well written commentary about our sad situation.

    The need for a huge landslide event in 2014 is so evident on several fronts. If we don't make it happen this time around, we all lose, in the classic definition of that word. If we are unable to put a dent into Obamacare with defunding, it will become the 'iceberg that sank the Titanic' for this nation. We will continue inexorably toward total socialism. This is the last chance at steering away from catastrophe.

    UB

    Why We Always Lose, and the Need for 21st Century Conservatives

    By: Daniel Horowitz (Diary) |



    Ever since the 1930s, or perhaps the times of Woodrow Wilson and the progressives, weíve ceased to function as a constitutional republic governed by our founding laws. Instead we have transitioned into a pure democracy government by majority rule.

    The tyrannical rule of a majority of the political class, in conjunction with the lack of courage from those who claim to represent We the People, has bequeathed us with a losing equation for almost a century.

    There is an imbalance of power inherent in the political system of any pure democracy, in that the forces of tyranny have a built-in advantage over the defenders of freedom. It takes but one legislative or administrative victory for statism to succeed in guiding society on an indelible path towards socialism.

    As long as the media and societal institutions manipulate 51% of the population to elect 51% majorities for any big government proposal, they secure a permanent victory. The forces of freedom are never strong enough to overturn a government intervention once the dependency takes root.

    On the other hand, we donít have the ability to perpetuate the lack of government intervention. Even if we succeed in blocking a proposal, they will try a second, third, or fourth time until they are successful. Hence, when liberals failed to institute a government takeover of healthcare in 1993, they tried again the next time they won unfettered power, and achieved their dream. If our approach to governance is to consummate liberal programs into law when we have a seat at the table, we will never slow the inexorable slide into socialism.

    We have approximately 77 welfare programs, and the best we can do is offer some minor tweaks.

    We have government-run healthcare for seniors and complete federal control over our retirement, yet those two failed programs have become untouchable.

    We have officious federal involvement in agriculture, housing, education, energy, and local transportation, yet all we can do is nibble around the edges.

    We stand today at the precipice of enacting the worst government program ever. We have two choices: we can continue funding Obamacare, only to find ourselves discussing modest tweaks to the law in 10 years from now Ė not unlike the way we are forced to approach Medicare now. Or we can end the cycle of big government by forcing a fight to the death over this cancer to our country before it take effect. It is that simple. There are no other options. Anyone who opposes the defund effort before the law takes effect is essentially admitting that Obamacare will become enshrined into the welfare state forever.

    Some figures in the beltway conservative intelligentsia are scoffing at the idea, asserting that we will have better opportunities to get rid of Obamacare. Others ask why we are not pushing budget brinkmanship over other conservative policy priorities if we think it will work with Obamacare. These people are overlooking several factors:


    • Timing: Social Security and Medicaid have been around for years. The ship already sailed on those programs. We can and should push for reforms when we obtain more power in Washington, but they are not nearly as pressing as Obamacare. The exchanges will open in October; if we donít have this fight now, we will never get rid of the law. The least we can do is prevent a new program from taking root.
    • Public opinion: Unfortunately, much of the welfare state is quite popular, a testament to the success of dependency-driven policies Ė something we are trying to preempt with Obamacare. We canít force brinkmanship over Medicare reform. Obamacare, on the other hand, is an electoral albatross for Democrats. If they want to shut down the government in order to throw people off their insurance and chase doctors out of the field, let them have at it.
    • 2014 Landscape: To begin with, we never lost anything as a result of the í95 government shutdowns. We gained seats in the Senate in í96, and I donít think anyone can suggest that Bob Dole lost the presidential election because of the shutdowns. The battle for the Senate next year will be fought unprecedentedly on red state territory Ė Alaska, South Dakota, Montana, North Carolina, Louisiana, and Arkansas. Republicans are favored to retain or expand control over the House due to redistricting and the clustered nature of the modern-day Democrat coalition. Moreover, Obamaís ubiquitous unpopularity with white voters will exacerbate that problem in a mid-term election turnout. We should welcome a fight over Obamacare in any state, certainly in red states and districts.


    The battle over Obamacare is shaping up to be the Waterloo for the GOP establishment. The Republican Party of the 20th century has largely failed us. They have given in to the ineluctable self-perpetuating cycle of government. There are a number of 21st century conservatives waiting in the wings to pick up the shambles left behind by the failed party of the past. They will ignore us at their own risk.


    Cross-posted from The Madison Project
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I read the transcript of Rush's interview with Mike Lee.

    The question had been raised that the bill Lee has proposed will be ineffective since the funding for Obamacare that would be impacted is "mandatory", not discretionary. Lee said this is incorrect, and they are putting together the amendment that will make this defunding work.

    He has about 100 signed up in the House, but only 13 in the Senate. There is a website defundobamacare.com where people can find a list of the legislators who have signed up ... and those who have not.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    I read the transcript of Rush's interview with Mike Lee.

    The question had been raised that the bill Lee has proposed will be ineffective since the funding for Obamacare that would be impacted is "mandatory", not discretionary. Lee said this is incorrect, and they are putting together the amendment that will make this defunding work.

    He has about 100 signed up in the House, but only 13 in the Senate. There is a website defundobamacare.com where people can find a list of the legislators who have signed up ... and those who have not.
    Best I can tell, the arguement is whether mandated spending can be defunded without repealing Obamacare. I do remember in the past where states have attempted to cuut funding for school systems, the courts have come in and set the amount that the state must provide in funds at the court's discression. Not sure that this would apply to the fed. gov. but would be concerned that it would. Obama also has the AG to provide legal resources to take it to court.

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    Senior Member GaryJ's Avatar
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    I agree we are moving farther and farther away from being a republic of states to a democratic majority rule. We do need to stop the Obamcare funding. We also need a Supreme Court that upholds the constitution not legislate from the bench like overturning Prop 8 in Ca. How can the vote of the people be unconstitutional?
    Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

    What if all we have today is what we gave thanks for yesterday?

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    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    As much as I would like it to happen, it's wishful thinking. We have too many spineless politicians on the Republican side. They will cave in. On every major issue of the last four or five years, they have consistently caved... What's different now?
    Bill Davis

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    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Great another attempt at repealing Obamacare. This will make what number 36? I won't say that those who keep voting for this are quitters, but I won't call them winners either. To change subject though, there was some huge problems with the healthcare system prior to the passage of Obamacare. What would you all say is the solution to any of the problems involving healthcare and why didn't republicans propose any of these fixes prior to the bill that was passed.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
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    Senior Member GaryJ's Avatar
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    First off I believe it is really too late to stop Obamacare as much as I think it is flawed. Any legislation that is passed without people reading it can't be all that good. Stopping funding on something that has been legislated can be done but it is highly unlikely.

    As for how to fix the healthcare system well I don’t have the answer. I do have some thoughts however. I like to keep things simple so I will opine on a few pieces of the puzzle that I believe make it difficult to come up with a solution.

    Hospitals whether or not they are non-profit need to at least break even but would also like to make money, hopefully to invest back into the hospital. That said every hospital places its own value on its services. For example hospital 1 may charge $1,000 for an appendectomy and hospital 2 may charge $2,000 for the exact same procedure. This done in the spirit of free enterprise and of course the costs at each hospital are different depending on the staff salaries, maintenance costs, etc. Unfortunately when we are sick we don’t have the luxury of price shopping like we do if we want to buy groceries or a car. So in effect I don’t see any competition between hospitals to keep costs relatively on par with each other.

    Insurance companies are like any other business. The goal is to make money. There may be a little more competition here but it is hard to gauge. Larger companies pay less per person than smaller companies for the same coverage based on volume. I suspect each insurance company places a value on a procedure just like a hospital does. So using my example of an appendectomy insurance company 1 may pay $500 for the procedure and insurance company 2 may pay $600 for the same procedure. So the insurance company and the hospital that does the procedure will determine the out of pocket cost for the procedure.

    Taking the same example to the uninsured, who when they are sick can’t shop for the best price either, we know that they may or may not pay for services rendered. This costs someone money as staff is still paid and the building still maintained etc.

    Then the government has its own payment schedule for doctors who accept Medicaid which seems to be lower than what other insurance companies pay for the same procedure. This is based on what I read about this subject and the fact that my mother who is in a nursing home has problems getting doctors to see her when a specialist is needed because some stopped taking Medicaid payments.

    I think the cost of a doctor is high because they need to carry malpractice insurance. They are people who put their pants on 1 leg at time and yes they make mistakes. I can’t dictate the value of a human life but I know that these costs are out of control because we live in a society that is all about me and so many are looking for a short cut to make money. (That subject is for anther thread)

    If we had a society without insurance at all what would happen. Well I think it would be like it was 100 or so years ago. You pay as you go. I believe costs would be cheaper but unemployment higher. Doctors and hospitals wouldn’t need an army of people to handle insurance forms. There would be no insurance companies to employ people.

    Like I said earlier I don’t have the answers but I do know it is a complex problem.
    Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

    What if all we have today is what we gave thanks for yesterday?

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    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Sadly GaryJ...this is EASY..."Like I said earlier I don’t have the answers but I do know it is a complex problem"! Regardless of the complexities of any health program, please trust me when I say, putting the program under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government, with it's plethora of corrupt exemptions, is NEVER the answer. For that matter, how many programs run by the Feds do you believe have been answered to your satisfaction??? Commerce? Education ? Energy?

    SOOO...with a myriad of sad examples where we can see how pathetic the Feds run these things, and the glut of bureaucrats that come from the establishment of these government run programs costing billions of tax-payer dollars, and never seeing ANY of these programs cut back to save money when we are in a bind, how in hell can we then turn over 1/7th of the US economy to the Fed, under a new program called Obamacare?

    Do you believe for an instant this will make that program any less "complex"?

    UB
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    Senior Member GaryJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Sadly GaryJ...this is EASY..."Like I said earlier I don’t have the answers but I do know it is a complex problem"! Regardless of the complexities of any health program, please trust me when I say, putting the program under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government, with it's plethora of corrupt exemptions, is NEVER the answer. For that matter, how many programs run by the Feds do you believe have been answered to your satisfaction??? Commerce? Education ? Energy?

    SOOO...with a myriad of sad examples where we can see how pathetic the Feds run these things, and the glut of bureaucrats that come from the establishment of these government run programs costing billions of tax-payer dollars, and never seeing ANY of these programs cut back to save money when we are in a bind, how in hell can we then turn over 1/7th of the US economy to the Fed, under a new program called Obamacare?

    Do you believe for an instant this will make that program any less "complex"?

    UB
    No. I do not believe it will make less complex. The gov't Can't run itself so I have Zero confidence it will run this correctly. My point is I know Obamacare is flawed and I wanted to show a few examples of the complexity. That said I just don't think the funding will be stopped. We have a polarized senate and congress with a president that has yet to figure out how to be a leader.
    Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

    What if all we have today is what we gave thanks for yesterday?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    I do not want to see Obamacare go, until there is a better system in the works. Don't repeal down Obamacare replace it.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

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