The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: What is the best way to lessen a dogs desire to keep birds for himself??

  1. #1
    Senior Member archer66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ralls County, MO
    Posts
    217

    Default What is the best way to lessen a dogs desire to keep birds for himself??

    When my 13 month old lab was 8 weeks I tried him on dove wings and darn near didn't get on back...had to pull it out of his throat. Now that he's bigger and he's on full size ducks he still doesn't want to give them up. He doesn't growl but he acts like he'd prefer to eat it than let me take it. The retrieve is no problem.....he comes right back to me with the bird just as fast as he can but when he gets to heel he either lays down to "chew" on the bird or he thrashes his head around as if to keep it from me. He doesn't do it all the time....sometimes he gives the bird up readily. To be honest he was the same way with bumpers to some degree....just not as bad as with birds naturally.

    He has NOT been through force fetch although I am open to doing so if it will help. Did I answer my own question? A dog properly forced will give up the bird whether he wants to or not?

    Or


    Is this something I can repair with repeated exposure to birds whether I force train or not?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Elverson, PA
    Posts
    2,432

    Default

    You're in a bit of a pickle.
    To answer one question, NO a properly forced fetch dog is not immune from freezing, chomping etc.
    But, to have a chance in he'll of making things better you will need to do ff.
    Work on "drop" or "give" vs "taking" bird from dog. Never pull on bird in dogs mouth make dog open mouth on command so bird/bumper "falls" out of its mouth. you hold rope or wing.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  3. #3
    Senior Member 7pntail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lodi ca
    Posts
    1,264

    Default

    You did answer your own question. And, what is your reluctance? Amateur here---that's what I would do pronto. And, I noticed the cigar hold in your avatar. That will change too. Good luck with either path.
    John Stroh, Lodi ca


    There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace…........If one has cut, split, hauled, and piled his own good oak, and let his mind work the while, he will remember much about where the heat comes from, and with a wealth of detail denied to those who spend the weekend in town astride a radiator.

    Aldo Leopold

  4. #4
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LV/CenTex/Idaho
    Posts
    12,712

    Default

    Have you ever heard the term "leave something in it for the dog"...well that may just apply here...make the dog think that there is still more retrieves to be had, after they finish the one that they are on..Dont be too quick in wanting to take the "prize" away from the dog...make them sit quietly with the bird in their mouth before giving them the signal to drop, or when positioning the dog for the next retrieve on a multiple retrieve, leave the bird in the dog's mouth while you line them up and position them for the next retrieve

    I have no "pelts" so thats my .02
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Longview Texas
    Posts
    594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by archer66 View Post
    When my 13 month old lab was 8 weeks I tried him on dove wings and darn near didn't get on back...had to pull it out of his throat. Now that he's bigger and he's on full size ducks he still doesn't want to give them up. He doesn't growl but he acts like he'd prefer to eat it than let me take it. The retrieve is no problem.....he comes right back to me with the bird just as fast as he can but when he gets to heel he either lays down to "chew" on the bird or he thrashes his head around as if to keep it from me. He doesn't do it all the time....sometimes he gives the bird up readily. To be honest he was the same way with bumpers to some degree....just not as bad as with birds naturally.

    He has NOT been through force fetch although I am open to doing so if it will help. Did I answer my own question? A dog properly forced will give up the bird whether he wants to or not?

    Or


    Is this something I can repair with repeated exposure to birds whether I force train or not?
    Yes you answered your own question and no repeated exposure will not fix the problem. Most likely you will deepen the problem if you continue. Some people may disagree that FF will fix the problem however most people tend to forget that the program does not just entail fetch. Proper hold and drop should be the first thing taught and mastered before force is ever thought about. Just that part will help you tremendously. Good luck.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jeannie Greenlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    O'Fallon, MO
    Posts
    597

    Default

    here is some interesting reading for the OP
    http://www.theretrievernews.com/RNew...2013GEORGE.pdf
    especially the second page. I agree the dog needs to be FF but this could turn out to be a life long problem if not addressed properly.
    Jeannie Greenlee

    Blazinlakes Legally Blonde CDX JH NAJ RA WC OD (1st Retriever)
    HRCH Smokingold Guns Up CCA WCX CD MH
    https://sites.google.com/site/smokingoldretrievers/home

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Linden, VA
    Posts
    1,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7pntail View Post
    I noticed the cigar hold in your avatar. That will change too.
    Thats not necessarily true

  8. #8
    Senior Member archer66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ralls County, MO
    Posts
    217

    Default

    Thank you to everyone for the advice, I appreciate it. I know there are a lot of benefits to FF and had actually planned to have it done by now. Work and other commitments have gotten the best of me.

  9. #9
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Stirling Scotland
    Posts
    837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by archer66 View Post
    When my 13 month old lab was 8 weeks I tried him on dove wings and darn near didn't get on back...had to pull it out of his throat. Now that he's bigger and he's on full size ducks he still doesn't want to give them up. He doesn't growl but he acts like he'd prefer to eat it than let me take it. The retrieve is no problem.....he comes right back to me with the bird just as fast as he can but when he gets to heel he either lays down to "chew" on the bird or he thrashes his head around as if to keep it from me. He doesn't do it all the time....sometimes he gives the bird up readily. To be honest he was the same way with bumpers to some degree....just not as bad as with birds naturally.

    He has NOT been through force fetch although I am open to doing so if it will help. Did I answer my own question? A dog properly forced will give up the bird whether he wants to or not?

    Or


    Is this something I can repair with repeated exposure to birds whether I force train or not?
    My 2c - Why not try something different? rather than FF in this case,lets face it all the experts will tell you 'you should have FF' ? Or follow xyz program ..You ain't done that! ,but that doesn't mean that if you did,you wouldn't be having the same issue ?.I would say ,rather than 'gleam' some inspirational light on here,go visit a reputable trainer who would have the dog in front of them. Although your description may well be correct ,the eye of someone else may be different. Anyhow, whatever you decide , Stop doing what you are doing now! because it obviously isn't working.Hard mouth!!! which is what you have!! is 95% handler induced, I know that because I have had many in for training to resolve it!...95% of the training has been with the handler. In my personal opinion .
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  10. #10
    Senior Member archer66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ralls County, MO
    Posts
    217

    Default

    Jeannie Greenlee....thanks for the link I enjoyed it and it relates well to what BonMallari said above....let the dog savor, don't fight the dog for it.....let the dog realize that more fun will come if he gives the bird up.

    Here is some more and better description of what I'm seeing:

    I've done this with bumpers and it works.....however I have a hard time getting myself to allow him to chomp on a bird. With bumpers he'll typically come back as fast as he possibly can and I'll say heel and he'll come to heel...he's 100 percent on that....right where he needs to be. Then I say SIT and he sits and either drops the bumper or holds it loosely. I hold his collar with my left hand then reach for the bumper and say GIVE. I've varied the time I take to say give and the result is that sometimes he drops the bumper before I say give or as I said above he'll hold it loosely and let me take it....sometimes he'll tighten his grip a bit but not much. If I don't grab his collar he will lay down....so that tells me I need to reinforce sit in that context so he knows he can't lie down.

    With birds he makes the retrieve and comes back full speed and comes to heel just like he does with bumpers. The difference is that with birds he is more likely to ignore sit and will stand there and mouth or chomp the bird OR he will immediately lie down and mouth or chomp on the bird. My reaction to this has been to lift him up by his collar and say SIT again with a nick. This works and he sits...still mouthing the bird. When I reach for the bird and say give he'll thrash his head or clamp down. I repeat give and begin to take the bird which he might clamp down on or might let me take but while continuing to try to mouth or chomp the bird or maybe my fingers.

    I know this can be a lifetime issue with him but I'm optimistic that FF will REALLY help because it'll improve his hold and it will reinforce GIVE. And of course the extra time and work will be good for both of us.

    Additional thoughts??

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •