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Thread: Trial/test setup question

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    Senior Member J. Walker's Avatar
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    Default Trial/test setup question

    The rulebook says that dogs must be able to see each bird in the air and as it falls. I've had judges tell me there's nothing that says dogs must be able to see birds to the ground. Still, by rule, if the bird must be able to be seen in the air then wouldn't logic dictate that "in the air" and "as it falls" be different situations? If not, then why the two descriptions? To me, it means the bird must be able to be seen if not to the ground, at least to the point when it comes into contact with visible cover. How do you folks interpret it because I've seen judges set up marks with birds landing behind impenetrable thickets and over hills?
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Walker View Post
    The rulebook says that dogs must be able to see each bird in the air and as it falls. I've had judges tell me there's nothing that says dogs must be able to see birds to the ground. Still, by rule, if the bird must be able to be seen in the air then wouldn't logic dictate that "in the air" and "as it falls" be different situations? If not, then why the two descriptions? To me, it means the bird must be able to be seen if not to the ground, at least to the point when it comes into contact with visible cover. How do you folks interpret it because I've seen judges set up marks with birds landing behind impenetrable thickets and over hills?
    Actually for FT it says should not shall or must, but in my estimation you are correct, in that the Supplement to the Standard Procedure then further amplifies Trial Procedure 8, to me this amplifacation is in essence confirming your point.

    The wording in the HT regs , does say "must see the bird as it goes up into the air and as it falls" so there is no need for further amplifacation to be provided elsewhere

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 08-03-2013 at 05:49 PM.
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    Senior Member mostlygold's Avatar
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    As a judge, I feel the birds should be seen in the air and if not as they actually hit the ground, very close to that. If the bird falls behind a thicket or over a hill, how can you, as a judge, judge the dog. If you can't see the dog in the area of the fall and can't see the dog pick up the bird, it would make it very hard to judge that dog. The intent of the rule, as far as I believe, is that the dog should see the bird arc up into the air and get a good idea, both distance and approximate area, of where it falls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlygold View Post
    As a judge, I feel the birds should be seen in the air and if not as they actually hit the ground, very close to that. If the bird falls behind a thicket or over a hill, how can you, as a judge, judge the dog. If you can't see the dog in the area of the fall and can't see the dog pick up the bird, it would make it very hard to judge that dog. The intent of the rule, as far as I believe, is that the dog should see the bird arc up into the air and get a good idea, both distance and approximate area, of where it falls.

    Dawn
    My bolding ...The choice is throw the bird in a group of cattails (or other types of cover) where you can't see the dog in the fall area or put the bird out on bare ground or in open water which would you choose..? If you can't see the dog you know it is the fall are ...If you can see the dog you know it is out of the fall area....I agree the dog should get a good look at the bird in the air...not behind a tree where there is only very limited time for the dog to see a small portion of the arc...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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    Senior Member limiman12's Avatar
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    What about a bird being thrown before the previous bird lands?
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    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limiman12 View Post
    What about a bird being thrown before the previous bird lands?

    Just fine as long as you don't consider it a mark. Tough to judge a mark if you have 2 in the air at the same time. If marking is of primary importance, best let the dogs actually mark the bird. JMHO.
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    Senior Member limiman12's Avatar
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    So which one doesn't get considered a mark, the first one that the dog swings from, or the second one that the dog swings to after hearing the shot?
    Fritz Baier
    owned, trained and handled by:

    GMHRCH-II MPR Baier's Mighty Waldimar
    MHR CPR Baier's Lady Gabrielle
    4 X GMPR MHR Baier's Lady Legacy of Tru Point MH Certified Therapy Dog

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    Senior Member Handler Error's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limiman12 View Post
    So which one doesn't get considered a mark, the first one that the dog swings from, or the second one that the dog swings to after hearing the shot?
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    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Why is your dog swinging off a mark to a shot? Did you ask it to?
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