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Thread: Mark Levin and a Paradigm Shift

  1. #61
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Reagan defined Conservatism? When it came to growing the size of the Federal Government, Reagan makes Obama look like a mizer! Like I've said, the lable Conservative has been corrupted.

    "On January 21st, 1981, President Reagan started with 2,875,000 nonmilitary federal employees.
    By the end of Reagan’s terms the total number of nonmilitary federal employees was 3,113,000. That is an INCREASE of 238,000
    Let’s move on to President George H.W. Bush.
    On January 20th, 1989, total federal nonmilitary employment was 3,113,000
    by the end of his only term, President George H.W. Bush had 3,083,000 federal nonmilitary employees on the books. That is a REDUCTION of 30,000 employees.
    President Bill Clinton came into office with 3,083,000 and by the END of his TWO TERMS he reduced the number of Federal employees to 2,703,000. That is a reduction of 380,000 federal employees.
    Now finally, President George W. Bush came into office with 2,703,000 nonmilitary employees and by the time his terms were through, the total nonmilitary federal employees on the books were 2,756,000, which is an INCREASE of 53,000 employees.
    The small government, lean and mean political party, seems to be the Democratic Party. President Clinton reduced the size of the federal government’s nonmilitary employees by OVER 10%.
    The “so called” small government President Reagan INCREASED the nonmilitary size of government by almost 10%.

    2,875,000
    The Reagan conservatives, in fact the entire GOP TODAY are trying to frame President Obama as a big government liberal but again, the numbers don’t lie.
    By the end of 2010, the United States STILL has less employees on the books than we did back in 1980 even though the population has grown from 226,545,805 to approximately 330,000,000 in 2010.
    TOTAL NONMILITARY EMPLOYEES IN 1980 — 2,875,000
    TOTAL NONMILITARY EMPLOYEES IN 2010 — 2,840,000

    "

    http://archives.politicususa.com/201...ma-reagan.html


    Today's so-called Conservatives are not only trying to hold onto an image that never exsisted, they clearly don't know history!

    Te ONLY thing Reagan was Conservative about was social issues!

    What was Reagan's responce after the Marine barracks bombing in 1983? 250 USA Service personel lost their lives in the Beruit bombing along with 50 French paratroopers. The French had identified Iran's Revolutionary Guard and the Hellbollah training center as the murderers. The French wanted to attack it but Reagan and Casper Weinberger talked them out of it!!!

    Franco....President Reagan has been judged by history as one of the best presidents in U. S. history! You show a lot of numbers but nothing about economics during his time and years following his reforms? In a free market society, driving the economy is fundamental to defending our liberties and way of life. Check out the facts on the websites below to see some of what Reaganomics did for us....not to mention the failure of the USSR because of how Reagan handled them during his presidency ....As for his dealing with terrorism, ask the people who were held by Iran, how he handled the situation, following the mess Carter made of it!
    http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record
    http://www.examiner.com/article/ronald-reagan-and-the-economy

  2. #62
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    The numbers don't lie. Reagan grew the Federal government to record levels. He was a big spending, big government President. We haven't had a Free Market Economy in over 100 years! Call Reagan's massive spending and Deficits what they were, his attempt at a Stimulus. The only group that has judged Reagan as one of the best is the Religious Right because Reagan was conservative only in his social policy. BTW, Reagan did NOT take down the USSR! They fell from within with their corrupt Communism. The Soviet people became tired of being poor! Reagan was just in the right place at the right time to attempt to take credit for their demise.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  3. #63
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    The numbers don't lie. Reagan grew the Federal government to record levels. He was a big spending, big government President. We haven't had a Free Market Economy in over 100 years! Call Reagan's massive spending and Deficits what they were, his attempt at a Stimulus. The only group that has judged Reagan as one of the best is the Religious Right because Reagan was conservative only in his social policy. BTW, Reagan did NOT take down the USSR! They fell from within with their corrupt Communism. The Soviet people became tired of being poor! Reagan was just in the right place at the right time to attempt to take credit for their demise.
    So Franco the Economic impact that a president has on the working people is of no interest to you? You live in some other world....I worry about all of the uninformed voters, but you misinformed voters are much more dangerous! I do not have to defend Reagan further, as history has already judged him as I noted above. As for Libertarians....they have no history to speak of and have yet to be judged....

  4. #64
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    So Franco the Economic impact that a president has on the working people is of no interest to you? You live in some other world....I worry about all of the uninformed voters, but you misinformed voters are much more dangerous! I do not have to defend Reagan further, as history has already judged him as I noted above. As for Libertarians....they have no history to speak of and have yet to be judged....
    You labeled Reagan a Conservative a few post ago. I posted real numbers that disputed your claim. By your analogy, growing the government to the largest size ever is Conservative! I've got news for you, big government, big spending is NOT a Conservative value! Again, using your analogy, with the way the economy is improving today, Obama would be considered a Conservative even though he hasn't grown government to the size Reagan did.
    Last edited by Franco; 08-19-2013 at 03:33 PM.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    So Franco the Economic impact that a president has on the working people is of no interest to you? You live in some other world....I worry about all of the uninformed voters, but you misinformed voters are much more dangerous! I do not have to defend Reagan further, as history has already judged him as I noted above. As for Libertarians....they have no history to speak of and have yet to be judged....
    Our ideals have history and have been judged to be great. They wrote the declaration of independence and the constitution. The founding fathers would probably consider the democrats and republicans as reckless and identify with libertarians. You can find just as many people that hate Reagan as you can those who love him. So I don't know where you are getting this whole history has judged him bit. Let me guess, history has judged Lincoln as a great president too?

  6. #66
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    Our ideals have history and have been judged to be great. They wrote the declaration of independence and the constitution. The founding fathers would probably consider the democrats and republicans as reckless and identify with libertarians. You can find just as many people that hate Reagan as you can those who love him. So I don't know where you are getting this whole history has judged him bit. Let me guess, history has judged Lincoln as a great president too?
    Bingo!Just to be clear, I don't hate Reagan. His image was good for us. However, he was far from being a Conservative except when it came to social issues.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Those of you that continue to argue that Reagan wasnt a Conservative forget a couple of REAL important facts..

    1. You are judging a man 20 + yrs AFTER his Presidency using a standard circa 2013...look at his presidency in the correct timeline and compared to what was considered Conservative circa 1980 post Jimmy Carter..those that are old enough to remember is that Reagan was considered to be just to the left of the John Birch society, for the post flower power generation Reagan was the devil he was establishment, so conservative that he made Goldwater look like a RINO

    2. look at the Dem's of the 1980...or better yet look at the Liberals of the 80's they are a far cry from the Libs of today, hell there are many on this board that may have been Libs in the late 70's and early 80's who are now staunch Conservatives

    3. You need to keep judgements in their right context and time frame...How would BHO have looked in the 80's...How would a Rand Paul looked like in the 80's..They both would have looked like freaks of THAT time

    4. anybody remember the Beatles...in the mid 60's they were considered longhairs by the standard then, laughable by today's standard
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  8. #68
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Bingo!Just to be clear, I don't hate Reagan. His image was good for us. However, he was far from being a Conservative except when it came to social issues.
    .....what Libertarian in history could be judged great? Let me answer for you.....NONE! Is it possible that there is a reason for that? It is unfortunate that to be Libertarians, you have limited your understanding of our history....Reagan and "obviously" Lincoln were great presidents, all clear thinking adults know this fact....

  9. #69
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    .....what Libertarian in history could be judged great? Let me answer for you.....NONE! Is it possible that there is a reason for that? It is unfortunate that to be Libertarians, you have limited your understanding of our history....Reagan and "obviously" Lincoln were great presidents, all clear thinking adults know this fact....
    swampcollie, you can NOT wake someone up who is PRETENDING to be asleep!

  10. #70
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    .....what Libertarian in history could be judged great? Let me answer for you.....NONE! Is it possible that there is a reason for that? It is unfortunate that to be Libertarians, you have limited your understanding of our history....Reagan and "obviously" Lincoln were great presidents, all clear thinking adults know this fact....
    If you think "great" is defined by; Declaring Amnesty for 10million plus illegals that opened the flood gates for more illegals, negotiating with terrorist ala Iran-Contra, running up huge deficits, growing the Federal Gov to its largest size ever-bigger than Obama's government and refusing to retaliate for the killing of Marines in the Beruit bombing then that is your take on greatness!
    Last edited by Franco; 08-20-2013 at 11:15 AM.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

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