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Thread: Importance of the Dam in breeding

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    So is that an answer to my inquiry? Do you or don't you? Not about me, I do. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I never questioned that, I simply asked a question which you did not answer.
    Sorry to get back so late. Gotta train in the dark here. No I do not run field trials. I train dogs as hunting companions and for AKC and UKC hunt tests. I have had some come through basics that could have played the game but the owners did not want them to.

  2. #32
    Member deadriver's Avatar
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    All time best producing FT pointer bitch Nells Rambling On was not FT titled. She was elected to HOF in 2000. My father, a FT pro from 70s and 80s and one of our close friends that is HOF and and several other major AA pros had campaigned to get her recognized for 2 decades....She finally got her due. Nell was sired ofa top 10 producing HOF sire and she was loaded with proven dogs in her lines. Her story seems to be that she was never given much of opportunity to win, but she was conscientiously bred to top sires. She was prepotent, and threw titled dogs from every litter, regardless of line or out-cross structure.

    But, how would really know that a "nell" was gonna be that type of producer? Since you cant, it seems that buying a pup off both titled parents serves to rule out one level of uncertainty in the gamble of buying your pup.

    Interesting read on Nell: http://strideaway.com/nells-rambling-on/

    "In her career, she produced nine litters of record by six different sires, producing a total of 21 winners that accumulated a total of 204 placements. Five of her winners, each with a placement in a puppy stake, were shown as unregistered and are not included in the official confirmed total winners produced and total placements won.

    Nell’s Rambling On produced four champions — Guard Rail, Condo, Rebel Addition and Addition’s Go Boy, two of which (Guard Rail and Addition’s Go Boy) have been elected to the Field Trial Hall of Fame!"
    "Dream big and dare to fail"

    "Leadership in Service"

  3. #33
    Member mathewrodriguez's Avatar
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    I agree with Bubba on going and watching the girls. Everyone has their eyes on FC AFC girls and naturally the friends and training partners of those talented girls are going to be waiting in line and rightfully so. The best chance for a new comer or outsider to obtain a pup with the most promise and potential is to go watch the girls, pick out the ones that impress you the most, review their pedigree as Breck has laid out to narrow down the field. Then go make friends.... I have found that the people at the hunt tests as well at the few field trials that I have been too, are extremely friendly and helpful. You can get your name on a list... Maybe not an FC AFC list, but a really nice female none the less. Keep in mind that's only my brief experience and I have accomplished all my goals in the hunt test arena, and yet I haven't accomplished even finishing a Qual in the field trial arena. I do have what I hope to be a really nice pup coming from a repeat Ali / Racheal breeding! And my dad has a pup out of Hook / Bitch that's a hunting dog*** but she IMO is more talented than Racheal, and I have trained with both multiple times. My point is I think you need to see the girl.
    Matt Rodriguez

    "The will to win is nothing without the will to prepare."

  4. #34
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    IMO the bitches line is just as important or more than the Sire. Some dogs just haven't been given the chance to show what they have, this is understood. But you find a proven stud and go with at least a QAA or MH bitch that has derby points the odds are in your favor (if the right training is there). A MH bitch that ran 30 master tests to obtain 6 passes is not telling me the dog has what I'm looking for. Same for the Sire. The proof is in the pudding.
    Last edited by WBF; 08-11-2013 at 11:50 AM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    You guys know I have limited trial and even testing experience but here's a little bit of a different slant.

    We all know that in a given litter there will be great dogs, mediocre dogs and downright couch potatoes. Yes, there are very notable exceptions to this throughout history but I don't think anyone would argue when I say "You can play the odds but it's always a crap shoot", especially when it comes to FT success.. Given the genetic potential the dog has to have and the quality of training you regularly see in those animals, you can increase the odds of finding that needle in the haystack (some people are really good at it), but you're still searching for one, none the less, especially if you don't have the finances to really get serious about the price of pups and training.

    I recently bought two female pups with the intention of POTENTIALLY breeding down the road.

    The first was out of an FC sire and QAA, derby list bitch. There were a few factors though that attracted me to the litter. 1. The sire was out of a line I liked and related to a dog I really love, having seen him run a few times. 2. I was able to get references from professional trainers that had worked with both sire and dam and that I trusted, as to the dog's disposition and ability. 3. THE PRICE WAS WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER REASONABLE.

    The second is a bit more of a risk and wasn't nearly as reasonably priced based on qualification but... I personally train with both sire and dam (both MH) and I like them both a lot.

    So my take is pretty simple. It's a gamble, straight up, so how much money do you have to gamble with and how can you personally increase your odds of success?

    If you don't feel good about your purchase, then you're probably not going to be successful. To me having faith in a dog is going to drive you to invest time and money in training, and besides... We have to love what we do here because the rewards aren't exactly mind boggling financially.

    Bitch line clearly drives the price and she is 50% of the gentics in any given puppy. She is pretty much everything in the value for money equation and for most people, I think that matters. For those whom it doesn't, then it becomes a matter of being able to actually secure a pup from one of those lines.

    Either way, the ladies definitely control the situation. Ain't that always the case?
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 08-11-2013 at 01:56 PM.
    Darrin Greene

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    nothin for nothin Tony, you came on this board a couple of months ago and have an answer for EVERYTHING. You don't think it is fair for an icon in the game to ask whether you play the game?
    Welcome to the new RTF

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