The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 36

Thread: Importance of the Dam in breeding

  1. #21
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Elverson, PA
    Posts
    2,417

    Default

    When researching bitches try this:
    Find bitches with the most FC-AFC's etc on the bottom (bitch) side of the pedigree.

    http://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=10486

    When you find one that looks good like above see if she has been bred before and if any offspring have done anything.
    Next is to look at the her "Vertical" pedigree. Both for clearance trends and performance results and which sires nicked and which didn't.
    That is, what have her siblings done or produced. Often not much info there for young ones so look at bitches mom & grandmom and their littermates and their offspring. did any title? did any do well but not title? are there many offspring not in OFA database? etc..

    So, for the above linked dog, she was a good one, FC-AFC, Double Header Winner as a 3 year old, produced field champions etc,
    She has a half sister (same mom) that has produced at least 1 FC. Good sign.
    http://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=475
    and she has a full sister from an earlier breeding that had a stellar career and has produced dogs doing good things.
    http://huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=13028
    so, in this example you would write a big check for a puppy, if you could get one.
    .
    It's a big gamble and even puppies from rather good breeding don't make it. There are rare instances where nearly all puppies from a good litter become field champions and go on to produce good puppies as well. Dig deep into these and you'll see.
    Like this one.
    http://huntinglabpedigree.com/siblin...s%20Scarlet%20
    and this one.
    http://huntinglabpedigree.com/offspr...ie%20McBunn%20
    and while we're at it throw this good girl in for good measure.
    http://huntinglabpedigree.com/offspr...20Of%20Time%20

    .
    The easiest thing to do is call Mary and ask who the best bitch is that you could buy a puppy off of.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  2. #22
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Elverson, PA
    Posts
    2,417

    Default

    And for all you HRC fans here is the best example of a non FC-AFC bitch who has a good number of grand babies and great grand babies running today that are doing great things. Most of her offspring have passed on or are living on the retirement couch but you can trace a boat load of good dogs to her.
    Keila being one of them as David pointed out.
    http://huntinglabpedigree.com/offspr...Duk%20MH%20***
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Longview Texas
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    That has never been in question, nevertheless most good and great producing bitches have blue ribbon pedigrees and accomplished siblings, Maxx is a poor example for your argument.
    The original question posted was do the sire and dam both have to be FC/AFC to produce potential champions. The answer is no and this is a good example considering he is one of the most prolific dogs out there. I do believe that the dam should be proven however there are a lot of people out there that would save the $1000 and go with a non-titled or lower titled bitch out of proven stock.

  4. #24
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    6,712

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Marshall View Post
    The original question posted was do the sire and dam both have to be FC/AFC to produce potential champions. The answer is no and this is a good example considering he is one of the most prolific dogs out there. I do believe that the dam should be proven however there are a lot of people out there that would save the $1000 and go with a non-titled or lower titled bitch out of proven stock.
    You seem to have a wealth of knowledge. Do you run field trials? I don't think we've met.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Longview Texas
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    You seem to have a wealth of knowledge. Do you run field trials? I don't think we've met.
    Wow. You're one of those guys huh? I'm sorry, I shouldn't have had an opinion.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake Winola, Pa
    Posts
    2,297

    Default

    nothin for nothin Tony, you came on this board a couple of months ago and have an answer for EVERYTHING. You don't think it is fair for an icon in the game to ask whether you play the game?
    BB
    Sight To Sea Labradors
    Southern Cross at Sight to Sea SH "Crosby" (by NAFC FC AFC Cody Cut a Lean Grade)
    Tealwood's Willing at Sight to Sea JH ( by CH I am Able)
    Briarglen's Running on Faith JH (by FC Fish River's Out of the Park)
    Glendair's Come Home to the Sea ( By Ch Topform's Edward MH, QAA)
    Sight To Sea's Take Aim SH (by Sight to Sea's Southern Comfort SH )Aug 23 2003-Feb 2013 Go get em , Man!

    Manager of www.DeCoverlykennels.com

  7. #27
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    6,712

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Marshall View Post
    Wow. You're one of those guys huh? I'm sorry, I shouldn't have had an opinion.
    So is that an answer to my inquiry? Do you or don't you? Not about me, I do. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I never questioned that, I simply asked a question which you did not answer.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    S.W. Washington
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    Hate to break up a good bitch slapping but.............

    The Momma side is about the only reason I agree to judge anymore. Gives me the opportunity to set up a test that will allow the dogs that have the characteristics that I prefer to shine and exposes the common. I look for a really athletic smallish female that lives for the game and then follow her around hoping that she gets bred to a really nice dog. Laura Nordberg (North Mountain) has a real knack for this and regularly produces some really nice pups. Several years ago I was struck by a yellow bitch that was 65 lbs. of pure muscle and go. Robin bred her to Pirate and I decided that I absolutely HAD to have one. Loved her to the point that when Robin repeated the breeding I grabbed another. I felt pretty good about the decision after spending the afternoon helping Gary Zellner pick his pup out of that litter. Now I'm torn whether to grab a third pup from a repeat breeding or to breed one of mine to that young man that Andy Kahn has.

    Momma is the determinant regards

    Bubba

    PS. Answer the dern question Tony- the good Doctor has already established his credentials (we are talking hall of fame here).
    There are three classes of people: those who see...those who see when shown...and those who do not see. - Leonardo da Vinci

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Granddaddy View Post
    I'm convinced this is where you start - with the bitch/dam. Then look for compatible sire......but start with the best bitch line your money can buy, even on the sire side. Example FC AFC Tequila Sunrise IX had very strong bitch lines & she was bred to 3 different sires. All three litters produced FC dogs, 10 in total. And BTW, she had 100 AA points too. There are a number of similar examples and such bitches consistently produce very nice pups.
    Another thing I considered when seeking my pups was this: look at who is winning at the game and find out what pups they afre running. I looked at lots of very successful people, loked and looked again at what they were running and I spent quite a bit. The results are very good so far, the cost of the pup is nothing. What would burn me is paying much less, then all the time, training, gas, and the end result is frustration or worse for me......loosing or missing a pass at a hunt test.

    I also am a hound guy for many years and it seems to me more hound guys believe in line breeding. One of the best crosses I ever seen in bear hounds was a brother to sister cross. It seems you get the best with line breeding but you can also bring out some majors faults as well. None the less, when I breed my bitch out of Boo Boo and Hurry she will be breed back very close to Ranger which is her grand sire on both sides.

    "This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way"


    Backwater's Ole' Crow Medicine Show SH "Raven" BLF 7/26/11 (NFC FC AFC Hunter's Run Boo Boo x AFC Beat The Rush)
    Backwater's Gun Powder 'N' Lead "Trigger" BLF 6/30/12 ( FC AFC CJ's Mister T x FC Queen Winhelmina of the Netherlands)
    Backwater's Biker Trash "Scooter" BLM 9/6/2013 (FC AFC Nick of Time Lone Ranger x Good Ideas Windy Retreezer QAA)

  10. #30
    Senior Member Hambone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    540

    Default

    Lots of very good advice in this thread. I will be printing this one out and putting it in my binder. Thanks. Don't stop though.
    I think they were all made to shoot because if they were not why did they give them that whirr of wings that moves you suddenly more than any love of country . . . I think that they were made to shoot and some of us were made to shoot them and if that is not so well, never say we did not tell you that we liked it.

    E. Hemingway

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •