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Thread: Who' s the real owner!!!

  1. #31
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Ted, for some reason you think because you have done something, you are the only one to have the experience? Maybe the hot air is coming from your end... Give me a break.

    As for your story, you have told it here at least a half dozen times since I've been here. It must have made an impact on you.

    You are not the first guy to get shot down by AKC. Nor the last. Get over it.
    Looks like somebody poked the Teddy bear!
    Last edited by shawninthesticks; 08-13-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Ted, for some reason you think because you have done something, you are the only one to have the experience? Maybe the hot air is coming from your end... Give me a break.

    As for your story, you have told it here at least a half dozen times since I've been here. It must have made an impact on you.

    You are not the first guy to get shot down by AKC. Nor the last. Get over it.

    fine, Bill

    why don't you and the other posters on this thread tell us what you have done with the AKC on this subject

    Because if you haven't done anything but rant on RTF, I don't give much credence to your comments

    Ted
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    I know we're talking about "co-owned" dogs but at least they go to the trouble of changing ownership papers, I really don't like it when an amateur tags along to run every other dog off a Pro's truck. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, but I don't like the idea even if it's legal. For the most part it's a non-issue, but I just judged an Am where it happened. I wish there was a way to outlaw it without making it illegal for a guy to run his buddy's dog when he can't make it for one reason or another.
    John, the situation you describe is that of a designated handler - probably the most famous being John Parrott who showed to a trial driving Danny Farmer's truck & ran all his dogs winning all 8 places in the AA stakes. Apparently Danny had a commitment that weekend but his clients still wanted the dogs ran .

    In the 80's Lanse ran a series of very humorous ads in RFTN about Rent-a-Handler. I will not name names as they are still active as are others who went to many trials with their pro & ran whatever dogs off the truck the owners wanted to pay to enter.

    I put a stop to that as a judge - telling the folks there is an honor in the 1st series & there will be one bye dog at the end - maybe that's one of the myriad of reasons my popularity as a judge suffered .
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    fine, Bill

    why don't you and the other posters on this thread tell us what you have done with the AKC on this subject

    Because if you haven't done anything but rant on RTF, I don't give much credence to your comments

    Ted
    Back when I was doing the judges website folks got no credit for placing a co-owned dog in the weekly postings & folks who ran more than 2 dogs were excluding from having their record posted. One of the biggest whiners about those rules was yourself with your string of owned & co-owned dogs.

    I also offered what I was doing to the poobah's on the RAC - no result other than by their disinterest they were not interested in knowing facts. I could tell from the database & the e-mails I received from folks just who the cheaters were.

    Don't think for one minute that you have all or the only answers to this issue.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Back when I was doing the judges website folks got no credit for placing a co-owned dog in the weekly postings & folks who ran more than 2 dogs were excluding from having their record posted. One of the biggest whiners about those rules was yourself with your string of owned & co-owned dogs.

    I also offered what I was doing to the poobah's on the RAC - no result other than by their disinterest they were not interested in knowing facts. I could tell from the database & the e-mails I received from folks just who the cheaters were.

    Don't think for one minute that you have all or the only answers to this issue.
    Your seven minute rebuttal can begin, now.

  6. #36
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Marvin I think your historical aaccount is flawed, I am fairly certain that John never took Danny's truck to a field trial and ran all the dogs in both stakes and won all 8 placements, I could be wrong but it doesn't happen often. John did run a number of trials handling one or more dogs off of Danny's truck. The primary person who began discussions about the Owner Handler Amateur was Eugene Corona who ran a number of dogs off of Don Remien's truck and did quite well on the West Coast. And don't indict Lanse for to my knowledge did not do what you allege, indeed he had no relationship with a pro that would have made that possible.

    This entire thread has gone from innuendo to wild speculation and anonymous finger pointing which does little to improve the many problems we have. This discussion would cause an observer to think that this is a huge problem in field trials when in fact it is not. This discussion is about one person and two dogs who have not violated any rules only the sensibilities of some people.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    fine, Bill

    why don't you and the other posters on this thread tell us what you have done with the AKC on this subject

    Because if you haven't done anything but rant on RTF, I don't give much credence to your comments

    Ted
    Frankly I'm not worried about your credence. I've been involved with enough of these AKC issues and hearings as a witness, once as the accused, and as a committee member to know that it is usually an exercise in futility.

    One of our Alaska clubs had an issue once with an out of state pro showing up with a bunch of dogs entered in the AM to be ran by a friend. (Even though the non handling owner was present). The club committee objected to it and the owner went to the line with the dogs. (For the first series).

    Another time, I was a witness when one club member physically assaulted another in front of the entire gallery. The AKC, actually threw out the suspension on that one due to a minor technicality... And allowed the offending member to compete the very next weekend.

    Another time I was the only witness to an alleged unsportsmanlike conduct. I testified truthfully as to what happened. The committee, and AKC chose to not believe my testimony on that one.

    I've seen people suspended for literally nothing. And I've seen folks who should have been banned for life get a pat on the back and run the next trial. There's your hot air. I could go on for an hour with names... But that would serve no purpose.
    Bill Davis

  8. #38
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Frankly I'm not worried about your credence. I've been involved with enough of these AKC issues and hearings as a witness, once as the accused, and as a committee member to know that it is usually an exercise in futility.

    One of our Alaska clubs had an issue once with an out of state pro showing up with a bunch of dogs entered in the AM to be ran by a friend. (Even though the non handling owner was present). The club committee objected to it and the owner went to the line with the dogs. (For the first series).

    Another time, I was a witness when one club member physically assaulted another in front of the entire gallery. The AKC, actually threw out the suspension on that one due to a minor technicality... And allowed the offending member to compete the very next weekend.

    Another time I was the only witness to an alleged unsportsmanlike conduct. I testified truthfully as to what happened. The committee, and AKC chose to not believe my testimony on that one.

    I've seen people suspended for literally nothing. And I've seen folks who should have been banned for life get a pat on the back and run the next trial. There's your hot air. I could go on for an hour with names... But that would serve no purpose.
    So, tell us what you are going to do to address Barry's problem. Because I think you have made my point.
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  9. #39
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    Ted is still awaiting his 7 minute rebuttal all others please present your final arguments in two minutes or less. Thank you.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Marvin I think your historical aaccount is flawed, I am fairly certain that John never took Danny's truck to a field trial and ran all the dogs in both stakes and won all 8 placements, I could be wrong but it doesn't happen often. John did run a number of trials handling one or more dogs off of Danny's truck. The primary person who began discussions about the Owner Handler Amateur was Eugene Corona who ran a number of dogs off of Don Remien's truck and did quite well on the West Coast. And don't indict Lanse for to my knowledge did not do what you allege, indeed he had no relationship with a pro that would have made that possible.

    This entire thread has gone from innuendo to wild speculation and anonymous finger pointing which does little to improve the many problems we have. This discussion would cause an observer to think that this is a huge problem in field trials when in fact it is not. This discussion is about one person and two dogs who have not violated any rules only the sensibilities of some people.
    Ed - I only posted that because I thought it different, something like that has a way of catching one's attention - I have every RFTN ever published & could look it up were it important - this would have been when John was very active as a handler & prior to him taking on the duties of domestic bliss - if you doubt me, ask John or Danny yourself, I'm sure they would remember the circumstance.

    As for Lanse his Rent a Handler ads were to call attention to those who were doing just that - I could get copies if necessary, truly humorous - they were not about Lanse doing that - until recently he has not had a relationship with a pro that would put him in that category - I know Lanse reasonably well & we occasionally break bread when our paths cross, which is rarely these days.

    As long as you brought up Gene Corona - why did he never judge a National - certainly qualified, more so than many who have had the book in that status from our area.
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