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Thread: Alternative Energy

  1. #31
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    It was kind of fun to "interact" with the map & see how the wind farms have been added over time. They really started cookin' around 2006 & really blossomed after 2008. Also interesting to note where the wind farms are NOT. While the first ones were in CA, now there are not that many in CA compared to other places.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Switching to an interesting geopolitical take on America's historic resurrection as an fossil fuel giant, we have the story out of Saudi Arabia of growing worries there that the U.S. -- long dependent upon (hence ripped off by) the Middle East -- is rapidly becoming energy-independent, and will soon become an exporting rival to the greedy gang of kleptocrats called OPEC.


    One billionaire Saudi "investor," Prince Awaleed bin Talal, has just lamented that Saudi Arabia's economy is now threatened by [COLOR=#11B000 !important]competition from the U.S. because of the fracking revolution. He bawled that "[o]ur country is facing continuous threat because of its almost total dependency on oil." He added, "... we see that rising North American shale gas production is an inevitable threat."

    [/COLOR]

    Talal is, of course, correct: Saudi Arabia is the world's biggest petroleum exporter, raking in $336 billion a year, which is 92% of the country's revenue. And as a key member of the oil cartel OPEC, it helped drive America to the brink of economic collapse back in the 1970s.


    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2cNCeQPKM
    While we worry about what damage we may do by fracking, I think about how many American lives might not have been lost in the ME if we had been able to tap these oil resources sooner.

    Stunning to think that 92% of the Saudi economy is oil. Those sheiks will be devastated if their oil revenues are decimated by the availability of oil and NG from other more stable sources like Canada and the US (not to mention the European resources that have been discovered).
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  3. #33
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    At 65 years old I was taught the same, still do it. I don't always flush if I take a leak. I do close the lid though cause
    I've got dogs in the house and a wife too. Other than turning off the light when you leave a room, what other energy saving habits have you adopted? Or is it just about Huntinman and what he needs and wants?
    You and I might not need the govt to help tell us, but others like the previous poster might. What is so often the dominant paradigm of the righties is "I got mine, don't f*** with it! I don't need nobody, nohow to tell me what to do. Well Bill, not everybody is as responsible as you and I.

    Basta, JD
    It used to be that in American Society, certain things were acceptable and certain things were not. If you did not do what was in the norms, you got major grief from peers, parents, teachers, even strangers.....Liberal Progressives, supported by the single + simple minded press have changed our society to an 'anything goes' society...then you add to this 'Political Correctness garbage' and you get what you get. The point here is that a strong moral, honorable society is stronger than any government at setting and maintaining the norms and rules that work within the society. The bleeding heart Liberals have ruined all of this....hopefully this too will change!
    Last edited by swampcollielover; 08-19-2013 at 10:16 AM.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    At 65 years old I was taught the same, still do it. I don't always flush if I take a leak. I do close the lid though cause I've got dogs in the house and a

    Yup, I can remember being that as a kid as well.

    Other than turning off the light when you leave a room, what other energy saving habits have you adopted? Or is it just about Huntinman and what he needs and wants?
    You and I might not need the govt to help tell us, but others like the previous poster might.

    Unplug infrequently used appliances & lamps, i.e. I leave only one lamp plugged in in extra bedrooms.

    Open windows on cool summer evenings, and close them in the AM.

    Turn down the thermostat in winter; and up in summer.


    What is so often the dominant paradigm of the righties is "I got mine, don't f*** with it! I don't need nobody, nohow to tell me what to do. Well Bill, not everybody is as responsible as you and I.

    I think you are wrong on this, JD. The most egregious offenders of the "I've got mine ..." mentality seem to be people like Al Gore, who wants everyone else to be "green" but he, himself is offensively over-consumptive.

    I tend to see older people being generally more conservation-conscious than younger people; those who lived through the Great Depression, especially so.


    Basta, JD
    I don't think it's fair to assume that because an individual does not embrace a carbon tax, it means that they have no regard for the environment. That is always the straw man that is used to indict such opposition.

    The POTUS is installing solar panels at the WH. The $ is not coming out of his pocket to do this. Eventually, it should save some taxpayer dollars. I've investigated the pay-back on such an installation at my own home. At the present stage of technology, it is simply not cost-effective for my private home.

    Interestingly, the life span of the panels are anticipated to be about 20 years ... similar to the life of a fossil-fuel furnace. But the cost of the two systems are still dramatically different.

    The tax credits are of most benefit to those in the higher income bands. This effectively makes those with lower income pay more for their electricity than those who can afford the large investment in the solar systems. If a solar installation costs $25,000, 30% can be a tax credit (Fed), but the credit cannot exceed the total taxes due. So, while the max tax credit might be $7500, if your total tax bill is only $3000, you will only receive the $3000 credit.

    Effectively, a lower-income person gets a better tax break by having more kids for the child credit rebate, than the taxpayer who tries to "go green". This effectively squeezes the lower end of the middle class.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    It used to be that in American Society, certain things were acceptable and certain things were not. If you did not do what was in the norms, you got major grief from peers, parents, teachers, even strangers.....Liberal Progressives, supported by the single + simple minded press have changed our society to an 'anything goes' society...then you add to this 'Political Correctness garbage' and you get what you get. The point here is that a strong moral, honorable society is stronger than any government at setting and maintaining the norms and rules that work within the society. The bleeding heart Liberals have ruined all of this....hopefully this too will change!

    Good post. I'm glad that some people are still able to see the light. Maybe there is hope yet.
    charly

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    The point here is that a strong moral, honorable society is stronger than any government at setting and maintaining the norms and rules that work within the society. The bleeding heart Liberals have ruined all of this....hopefully this too will change!
    Wait a minute, this is basically the same argument I was making against you for the drugs debate. That a just and moral society is best accomplished with minimal amounts of government (ie. drug wars, social welfare, warfare)
    I am glad to see that you have come around to this in such short amount of time. Welcome to the side of liberty.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    we are having a ruff time with gmp........
    I'll type about the bats later this eve. gotta make a syrup jar run and take a snapshot for you all.

    Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. The photo below is the Arrowhead Mountain Wind project. Photo taken by me from the parking lot of the Dominion & Grimm parking lot in Georgia, Vt.

    We have had a lot of energy news here in Vermont in the last week. Green Mountain Power has 3-4 of these wind turbine sites in Vermont. They are under investigation in 2 towns for violating pre-existing noise ordinances. And at the same time applying for permits to be allowed to kill an undecided number of endangered species. Vermont is under attack by mosquitoes. We have outbreaks of West Nile Virus and Easter Equine Encephalitis up here. Entire towns are spraying to kill mosquitoes. The Organic farmers and day care folks are very mad about this. Bats eat mosquitoes but our Bat populations is hurting because of white nose syndrome. A fungi that grows on the noses of bats during winter hibernation in caves. So with bat numbers down mosquitoes are up. What does this have to do with GMP (Green Mountain Power)?
    Well like any kid playing in the yard at dusk knows. Toss a handful of pebbles or a wham-O flying disk into the air and watch the bats hone in on um.
    So.... The wind turbines are chopping up bats. The same bats we are short on anyway because of white nose. So the same folk mad about the mass spraying are now focused on GMP. Now the fan on my desk has a cage around it so I do not stick my finger into it. But GMP is not putting cages around the blades of the turbines, like the fan on my desk. Instead they are petitioning the powers that be to be allowed to dice bats. Some of the bats being killed are indeed on the endangered list, some only on the threatened list. And a simple cage, like the fan on my desk, would stop this. But not stop the noise. Wind generators are loud! I know. My Brother used wind for power for 3 years. The day the over spin clutch went to hell and the blades turned too fast and it broke apart was stunning! He did not replace it.
    Wind is loud, angry, aggressive power generation.
    Solar is more passive.
    And Just Now, the same GMP is going after solar. See the state put in place a few years back that if home owners wanted to put solar on roofs and lawns on private homes at their own cost and then get hooked to the grid GMP had to buy the power from them at the same rate GMP would sell power to them for. So a large number of folk are doing this, especially farmers with large roofs and untillable fields. One cheese making goat farm put in almost a hundred of those solar panels on posts that move and follow the sun and they let the goats eat in the same field. No mowing!!
    Now GMP wants a law for NEW home construction that the solar panels may only generate HALF of the estimated power consumption of the home or farm. Because GMP wants to sell not buy from the average home owner. The backlash of this is many new homes are going to be completely Off Grid! And so GMP will loose hundreds or thousands of these mini power generators.
    GMP would rather kill bats and make noise than buy power from farmers and home owners
    OH... also this week Entergy announced it will close Vermont Yankee our nuclear power plant. The same plant our AG took all the way to the supreme court to try to close. Entergy kicked our AG's ass in court and then announced they will close anyway. Not because Vermont forced them to but because of the high cost of the plant. If our dufass AG had not sued them they would have closed earlier. Bumbass!!
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  8. #38
    Senior Member suepuff's Avatar
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    Holy Crap Ken...what a mess. I have friends/clients that have a large dairy near my house. They have a methane digester. Their thought was to help themselves and the community in a variety of ways....needless to say, the power company is paying them next to nothing for their power. AND their investment was millions. LONG story, but a common one. We want green, but won't pay for it. It is very frustrating all the way around....then, never mind about the size of the herd and factory farming corporations....they milk 1100 cows. You know why? It is more cost effective for 3 brothers and the parents to be in business together then have 4 separate farms. But they're a corporate factory.

    If we don't watch it, we'll be more dependent on foreign countries for energy and then we'll be very screwed if we force our farms out of business and have to buy our food from China and Mexico....but that's a whole nother thread....Our food supply is a National Security concern...It's a vicious circle...

    Very Frustrated....

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  9. #39
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    I went to the map of windfarms and then switched over to Google Earth to try to find them in a satellite view. Didn't find the windfarms, but if you want a real eye opener, go to google earth and type in Monahans, Tx in the search field. Then zoom to about 35km altitude. Once you find the grid of roads with little pinpricks spaced out along them, zoom in closer and take a look. You will see oil pumps and wellheads. It's pretty amazing, especially if you then sort of pan around in that part of the state.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post


    Because left to their own they would not do it.

    I want my 100 watt bulbs. (Luvy..) well x everybody else too. We think that we should turn on the switch and power should flow. It don't work that way. Everyday electrical power is bought sold and distributed on a very complex basis from company to company dependent on demand and generating capacity. The grid that lights your house and powers the computer you're looking at is more vulnerable than you suspect. All of the electrical grid that is shared and supported state to state is now controlled by much the same servers that caused an outage on RTF a week ago. Look at the reaction that happened then. The electrical grid is slightly better protected then RTF vbulletin, but not much.

    Learn to embrace and use the new light bulbs, Compact florescents, halogens, and LED's .

    Incandescents will eventually go away. Kinda like old CRT TV's (I like my B&W TV don't force me to change!!!) But man, we love those side lit led 52" flat screens don't we?

    JD

    PS If you feel like correcting my spelling, grammar, or syntax go for it. I gotta very thick skin.
    Since I like the light from the old fashioned bulb I would much rather pay the electric bill than the price for the new crappy bulbs. I bet I pay less for the power than the MERCURY FILLED LOUSY bulb.
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