The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 29

Thread: AKC Senior HT Question

  1. #11
    Senior Member Lady Duck Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    half way between Cat Springs and Raccoon Bend - Texas
    Posts
    3,258

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kajun Kamakazi View Post
    No, just because the dog wasn't verbally or physically commanded to sit, there's no way for the judges to tell the dog just hasn't been trained to sit everytime a bird is thrown. If your dog sat and dropped the bird he had, but picks it back up, you could be marked down in trainability. But as long as your dog doesn't switch and pick up the diversion bird you'll be fine.
    The last sentence here is incorrect. Your dog doesn't have to pick up the diversion bird after dropping the bird he's retrieving to be dropped for switching. On page 59 of the current book under serious dog faults, "6. Switching birds - ........ or dropping the bird being retrieved and going for another.

    So even if you are able to stop your dog and handle back to the initial bird, he is still charged with a switch, So you are out.
    When it stops being fun, I will find something else to do with my time and money.

    The Lady

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lady Duck Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    half way between Cat Springs and Raccoon Bend - Texas
    Posts
    3,258

    Default

    As to the initial question: whether a blind could be placed between a mark and a diversion bird at the senior level. This is not prohibited by the rules. However, the reason for the rule that the blind be placed outside of the marks is so that the senior dog is not influenced so heavily by the old falls. Common sense tells you that you would not want to make a transition level dog have to ignore the fall area of the diversion bird while running a blind.
    When it stops being fun, I will find something else to do with my time and money.

    The Lady

  3. #13
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    Common sense tells you that you would not want to make a transition level dog have to ignore the fall area of the diversion bird while running a blind.
    Lady Vicky, I know you are right, but common sense isn't so common.

    Some judges just like to go to the extreme the rules will allow.
    Last edited by Howard N; 08-15-2013 at 04:58 PM.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  4. #14
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Duck Hunter View Post
    As to the initial question: whether a blind could be placed between a mark and a diversion bird at the senior level. This is not prohibited by the rules. However, the reason for the rule that the blind be placed outside of the marks is so that the senior dog is not influenced so heavily by the old falls. Common sense tells you that you would not want to make a transition level dog have to ignore the fall area of the diversion bird while running a blind.
    Exactly. Thank-you.

  5. #15
    Senior Member DMA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    E WA
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Thanks I was on the right track, I felt it was a meaty but fair test. Many folks got some answers I don't think most of them really wanted to ask the question.

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Pa.
    Posts
    5,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Duck Hunter View Post
    As to the initial question: whether a blind could be placed between a mark and a diversion bird at the senior level. This is not prohibited by the rules. However, the reason for the rule that the blind be placed outside of the marks is so that the senior dog is not influenced so heavily by the old falls. Common sense tells you that you would not want to make a transition level dog have to ignore the fall area of the diversion bird while running a blind.
    If my memory serves me correctly, this was also the standard at one time applied in the Q.

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Duck Hunter View Post
    As to the initial question: whether a blind could be placed between a mark and a diversion bird at the senior level. This is not prohibited by the rules. However, the reason for the rule that the blind be placed outside of the marks is so that the senior dog is not influenced so heavily by the old falls. Common sense tells you that you would not want to make a transition level dog have to ignore the fall area of the diversion bird while running a blind.
    Why not? If you are training to "finish" your dog at the senior level then you may have a point. Most are striving for a finished, polished master level dog. I have a dog that has just turned two, 4/4 in senior not quite their yet for my standards to play the master game, but we are close, I can easily handle her off any diversion bird or mark that may suck her in. Once the whistle blows she knows, I run the show not her. As my training partner says, "this ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way".

    "This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way"


    Backwater's Ole' Crow Medicine Show SH "Raven" BLF 7/26/11 (NFC FC AFC Hunter's Run Boo Boo x AFC Beat The Rush)
    Backwater's Gun Powder 'N' Lead "Trigger" BLF 6/30/12 ( FC AFC CJ's Mister T x FC Queen Winhelmina of the Netherlands)
    Backwater's Biker Trash "Scooter" BLM 9/6/2013 (FC AFC Nick of Time Lone Ranger x Good Ideas Windy Retreezer QAA)

  8. #18
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DMA View Post
    http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...d#/f4c3d37d/46

    I don't run senior but every 4-5 years (when I get a new pup) and was asked a couple questions at the latest hunt test that I wasn't sure of.

    1). In the above link I read that Seniors has a diversion shot but at a couple of the last tests I've been to there were diversion birds in senior. Since I usually run Masters I wasn't too concern but some folks in the Gallery were. Is'nt this allowed?

    2). at Seniors the land blind was ran out side of the marks, however; there was a diversion bird thrown and the blind was between one of the marks and the fall area of the diversion bird. Since the diversion bird is not a mark is this allowed?

    I didn't see too many dogs have problems with these senerios but I would like to be able to answer these correctly while the gallery is going batty.
    You are always at the mercy of the judges and your dog.....What you learn becomes experience for the next time you decide if you are ready.....Most of the time.....Your dog is ready, not always, their training and yours, but what about the next time? Are you a team that can handle from what you experience from the last test?????? The major question is......Are you a team?????



    Edit to post: I might add that was taught to me from my dad when we where in the Pointing dog agenda of dog games in the 70s....He was very successful in that arena and had many ribbons and Best of Bred, He did also did many painting for dogs for clients....His advice to me was in any venture that you care to take was to: "Trust your friends, but trust your enemies closer"........ Take this advice and you will excel. Understand that there are those who will do some stuff to gain to their advantage....This is way the world is and will always be......Sadly...
    Last edited by BJGatley; 08-15-2013 at 10:31 PM. Reason: Understanding the world we live in...

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lady Duck Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    half way between Cat Springs and Raccoon Bend - Texas
    Posts
    3,258

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    Why not? If you are training to "finish" your dog at the senior level then you may have a point. Most are striving for a finished, polished master level dog. I have a dog that has just turned two, 4/4 in senior not quite their yet for my standards to play the master game, but we are close, I can easily handle her off any diversion bird or mark that may suck her in. Once the whistle blows she knows, I run the show not her. As my training partner says, "this ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way".
    Backwater, I was speaking from a judge's point of view.

    Senior is the most difficult level to set up for and to judge because it is supposed to fairly evaluate a dog that is in transition between running the tests using mostly natural skills at Junior and having excellent, trained skills to work though almost anything at the Master level. It is important to understand what a dog at the Senior level should be able to do and not set up a test beyond what their skill level should have prepared them for.

    Oh the other hand, I understand, as a trainer that you should be looking toward the ultimate goal you have for your dog and working towards that level of expertise.

    A judge needs to remember that we are not training, we are testing. We have to know how to set up for and evaluate the skills for each level. If a senior test is set up as a master test minus one bird, what's the point of running Senior?

    As a handler, does it feel good to know that you have prepared your dog to handle master level concepts when you are running Senior tests? You bet it does, because no matter how well prepared you think you are, you know that anything can happen on test day.
    When it stops being fun, I will find something else to do with my time and money.

    The Lady

  10. #20
    Senior Member Sundown49 aka Otey B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Ghent, Ky
    Posts
    2,578

    Default

    A judge needs to remember that we are not training, we are testing. We have to know how to set up for and evaluate the skills for each level. If a senior test is set up as a master test minus one bird, what's the point of running Senior?

    . Lady you hit the nail right on the head with this .......Thumbs up to you.
    My Dad said to me ."Son, a man just needs three things to be happy....A good dog, a good gun and a good wife.....Thank God I have all three
    Sundown's Boss of Delta Marsh JH (Louie QAA X Delta MH)
    Traveling Through The Graded Timber JH (2012 NAFC Trav X Timber MH QAA)

    Sundown's Ruff And Tuff (Boss JH X Lil Bit) best pup I have ever raised
    Home of HRCH Sundown's Loaded To The Maxx (FC AFC Jamie X Dixie QAA) RIP
    www.sundownlabs.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •