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Thoughts on Waterdog by Robert Wolters

25K views 70 replies 49 participants last post by  Keith Stroyan 
#1 ·
New to form here,

site caught my eye and felt like joining because of good informative people, that could help me along my journey of training my first retriever.

I just picked up a yellow pup, female, 2 weeks ago.
She's now 11 weeks old and i've started working with her and she's doing great already.
Faigh(dawg) picked up on the whistle commands very quickly and shows good signs of drive.

Now I understand that Wolters moves at an "accelerated" pace, and it's what both my uncle and grandfather use.
Just curious what the community's thoughts were on this training path or if the Hillman, mentioned often in threads, is the way to go.


Thanks,
Chris
 
#4 ·
Welcome to the Forum Chris. It depends on what you want. I would rather you read Wolters than nothing at all. As a matter of fact I trained a decent hunting dog using Wolters about 30 yrs ago. Things have come a long way and better methods exist now. Patented Forum response is join a training group where you can get a mentor to help you and choose a recent program to follow, several great programs are supporters of this site. Good luck
 
#15 ·
To me this is a perfect response. Too many people are quick to make fun of Richard Wolters when his book actually did work for many average hunters in making a serviceble retriever for them to hunt with. It just didn't work with every dog and wasn't meant by Wolters to be taken literally. I trained my first Golden with the book back in 1979 and it worked perfect for what I needed. Twelve years later I moved to Montana and bought another Golden, a male this time. I bought Wolters' updated Game Dog and started with my pup on day 49. By day 66 I was about ten days behind and very frustrated to the point that my wife, who I was driving crazy, made me look up Wolters number in New York and give him a call. He was actually very nice, told me I was taking his book too literally and recommended that as Tim suggested, I hook up with a local amateur training group to take me under their wing.

It took a little searching, but eventually word of mouth led me to Jim Mitchell and the rest is history. Kimo the dog that struggled with Wolters method, flourished in a Carr based program, earned Started and Working Retriever titles in NAHRA, then Junior, Senior and Master titles in AKC. That led to another dog and field trials. A lot of people make fun of Wolters because he was pretty eccentric, probably was a better writer than dog trainer, and as Tim pointed out there are better programs out there now. That said, the OP could well train a nice hunting dog just by using Wolters book, many others have.

John
 
#5 ·
Likewise, I used Waterdog and Game dog to train a great MBL to be a fine retriever and family pet. That was 18 years ago.

Like everyting else, training has evolved, and I think you will be cheating yourself and the pup if you don't read as much as you can.

I am assuming you are only looking for a personal companion and hunting partner/retriever.
 
#6 ·
30 years ago, had there been internet chat forums, one might have been discussing the merits of Wolters, DL Walters, JL Free,and Tom Quinn, only own two of those four and more for sentimental reasons....
 
#7 ·
LOL got all four Bon but I must say I did learn from them. Makes me ponder what is to come 30 years from now but I guess that is a topic for another thread.

Telepathy perhaps regards,
 
#10 ·
I learned from them too, read JL Free cover to cover twice,then tossed it...was given a DL Walters book and always liked it because DL was always nice to us...he was one of the first guys to come and congratulate Clint when he won his first Open in Colorado with a 24 month old dog, always thought that was darm classy...Tom Quinn is an old family friend of Clint's and would always take the time and chat with me, but sometimes his artistic free spirit thoughts were a little out there, but he really knew his dog stuff, a real good eye for dog talent, and a VERY good trainer, and an even better artist
 
#9 ·
You're going to get a run-around here about Wolters' very out-dated materials. They're kind-of a joke now. I started a dog on his "Game Dog" back in 1983. They're OK for a hunting dog, but there's a lot that's MUCH better now. Mertens Sound beginnings, Hillman's puppu video, whatever. But I recommend Lardy's Total Retriever Training 2nd ed.
 
#13 ·
Bon, I would add Bill Tarrant's "Hey Pup, Fetch It Up" to the list. I've had all the above books, enjoyed reading them, used some of the thoughts and discarded others-- I'm neither a good trainer nor a good handler, just a Labrador (Chocolate proforable) lover of long standing. I knew Mr. Wolters well enough that he asked that I call him Dick, as he said his friends did. He was a good writer, borrowing some ideas when experience did not meet his needs. He had a good since of humor and when he died, he was in an ultralight aircraft when I believe he had a heart attack. He would probably would have writen a book on flying ultra lights. (He was an accomplished sail plane pilot ((glider)). I got to know him because he liked Cleo.

Read everything you can about the training of dog, the way they think and be patient with them. They have been patient with me for over thirty years and I love them for it. Above all, HAVE FUN, Bill
 
#26 ·
I knew Mr. Wolters well enough that he asked that I call him Dick, as he said his friends did.
I didn't know him as well as you obviously did but I did know him well enough to know that the reason people called him Dick had nothing to do with his given name. Richard MacDonald trained and ran the only dogs that ever enjoyed any succes at all.

adjective not a noun regards

Bubba
 
#14 ·
Sorry, yes i ment Richards.

Thank you for the information. You all bring up the good point of the book being aged. The main reason i asked was because it's the only method that i was familiar with being as how it's what family uses.

And yes the she's going to be a personal companion and hunting partner/retriever. Not interested in the field competitions and what not. Not that I dont have massive respect for what you and your partners do, I think it's amazing, just not what i have in mind for my own retriever.

Plan on checking out those Hillmann DVD's this weekend for sure.

Chris.
 
#17 ·
probably was a better writer than dog trainer
No probably about it.
 
#20 ·
I started out reading waterdog, and it got me started in the right direction but I will say this if you have the resources get as many books and videos as you can afford and while much of the material is the same some of tips and tricks are different and devise a training plan your comfortable with. In my opinion there is no go to training program.
 
#22 ·
It doesn't really matter what book you read, who's program you use, or what club you belong to if you don't spend time with your dog. The biggest problem I see with Labs in my area is: Duck season is coming up and people decide they need a retriever. They buy a puppy that they can't do anything with because it is too young. A few months later Christmas passes, duck season is over, and spring is coming. The dog is now at a crucial training age yet the new owners have changed their focus on fishing, spring break, crawfish boils, or whatever seasonal hobby is popular. Now the dog runs wild on the yard for 9 months chewing up everything, digging up flower beds, and jumping on every person that comes by to visit. Now there is a 1 year old dog with zero retrieving ability, a ticked off spouse, and a hunter that will still be walking out making his own retrieves!

Dogs are like children, you have to spend time with them if you want them to grow up and be something. When I hear some average joe tell me the family is getting a duck dog I tell them to buy a started dog or buy a puppy and send it to the trainer at 4 months old. Most of the time it is cheaper to buy a started dog. I don't train dogs for anyone but myself. I wonder how many "Great Retrievers" never made a retrieve because they were forgotten in the back yard.

But of course, most people on this site don't have this problem. We all need more time in a day to work with our dogs!
 
#23 ·
Pretty easy to speak of Richard Wolters since he has been dead for almost 20 years. Most of his books were wrote in the 60,s. So guess when someone can write and produce videos to compete with him maybe they have the right to open their mouths and say he was an idiot but from where I sit he was a pioneer of his times.

PS the popcorn is cooking
 
#25 ·
I said the same thing when he was alive. He was a good BS slinger but he wasn't a dog trainer. If you want a dog to get even to the upper levels of retriever hunt tests you need more than he gives in his books.

Just because he's passed doesn't mean his books are better dog training tomes.
 
#27 ·
You old regulars here really know how to make a good impression on a newcomer, huh? I don't understand the constant bashing of all the old trainers just because you don't agree with their methods. If those methods got even a few dogs out of the back yard or off the couch... then I would say they were a success. Maybe the next NFC won't come from Wolter's book, but it is better than nothing at all.

More than one way to "skin a cat" regards...
 
#28 · (Edited)
I can go on record as saying Wolter's GunDog was the only training material, I've ever actually paid money for and brought. I had a 3 month old lab that I wanted to hunt. If I recall it was a pretty humorous down to earth book. That said I think I only actually read 2 chapters, then sort've skimmed everything else. I recall liking his attention of developing the nose, did really well with a young pup and her trailing ability. After that I got drug into a club day and a hunting partners Saturday training group and the dog sort've developed under tutelage, of steps and suggestions of what to work on next. This was much better for me as I have a pretty short attention span, books and programs can't really hold my interest, for to long so many other interesting things ;).
 
#29 ·
I've read most of his books and have pulled a few nuggets of info from them. Compared to the material available now they are very very basic to say the least.
 
#30 ·
Books are nice to read and get the basics from. But it's the little bitty stuff that as an amateur you won't notice that'll get you in trouble. Spend the money and hook up with a pro. They'll show you things and give you advice that you won't get in a book because every dog is different and reacts to correction in a different way. The pro will be able to show you how to get your dog motivated when it's needed and calm them down when it's needed. I did the book thing on my first two 15 years ago and they were good hunting dogs. I have two at a pro now and if I had known the difference 15 years ago, I would have had two awesome hunting dogs back then.
 
#31 ·
Bubba, I also knew Richard McDonald, back in my NAHRA days. Dick was a better writer than a trainer, no doubt, but he had one hell of a bit of good humor. While attending a function at Great Southern Hunting Retriever Club near Covington , Ga, he was wearing his usual attire of tweed jacket, knickers and white silk stockings when someone asked, "Aren't you afraid you will get a little prick in your stockings out here in these briars?" His answer, "I believe I have already done that". He also once said that the reason that he often changed "costumes" as often did was that he peed in his pants alot. At 82 I can understand that too! Bill
 
#32 ·
What whistle commands are you teaching your 11 week old pup?

JS
 
#33 ·
My older dog was trained using the Water Dog book, still have it. Does it work yes. My younger dog was trained using Smart Works program.Which program do you think I like? Spend the extra money and get a better program.
 
#35 ·
I read the Wolters book in "84" when I got my first lab after graduating from Culinary school I can say I really enjoyed it and most of the techniques worked for me . now 28 years later and with some time out of the kitchen I got serious training and competing and agree with most here that there is much more informative and advanced training available now . But the Game dog book really got my fire burning I'm just sorry it took me so long between dogs.Enjoy the book .
 
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