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House Breaking Kenneled Pup???

4K views 19 replies 15 participants last post by  Duckquilizer 
#1 ·
I am considering the purchase of a Lab pup that will be retained at the breeder's kennel until age 16 weeks as part of a "headstart program". Every Lab pup I have owned was brought home with me at agees 7 to 8 weeks. House breaking these young pups was accomplished quickly approximately 1-2 weeks. The "headstart labs" are kept in a kennel situation at the breeders and are not house broken when received at age 16 weeks. Is a pup like this harder to house break due to hacing been kenneled to an older age? If so, what might I be looking at time wise?

My preference for the "headstart pup" is that they go through a program of exposure to a wide array of environmental factors and bolding processes prior to delivery to a new owner, with emphasis on socialization to people, other dogs, ATV's, boats, light gunfire, birds, etc. the timing would also be advantageous in being able to expidite the pup toward OB and gundog related training.

I am retired and plan to spend a lot of time with this pup / gundog prospect. I am experienced in bringing a pup along to an advanced level performing gundog. I have never started a with a pup beyond 8 weeks old. Will house breaking likely be problematic due to eneeling to age 16 weeks? All of my Labs have lived in our home and we prefer to have their companionship within the home environment as opposed to kenneling a dog outdoors.

Any replies will be appreciated deeply.

Cheers,
Irishwhistler
 
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#2 ·
IMHO the pup could learn a heck of a lot more with you in your home at that age than they ever could learn in a kennel at the breeders. I would be more worried about socialization than introductions to the things that you mentioned at that age. It seems like it should be the other way around. Pup should come home with you and go back for head start. Again, JMO.

And to answer your question, it depends. If this is a scam, research has shown that puppies with no human socialization until the age of 16 weeks were borderline untrainable. Food for thought.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Irish, I like your old way better than what you're planning for this new pup.

IMO, he should be with you at 8 weeks learning about your life, places, other dogs and people, and all that will go into making him a good citizen in your house. Send him off for more training at 7 months or so but let him be a puppy from 8 weeks to 26 weeks.

BTW, after a couple weeks learning about your household, that would be a great time to do the Hillman puppy stuff.

It's probably just my prejudices but I dislike the institutional life for puppies. They should be in a home getting love, affection and puppy training.
 
#4 ·
Guess I was under a rock. I have never heard of the "Head Start" program. I will not comment on the positives or negatives of such a program but I will say I would not be interested. I can and do socialize my dogs myself to everything the world has to throw at them in life. Don
 
#5 ·
IMO --- get the pup home at 7 to 8 weeks of age.
You and your family need to be with the pup. It is not going to get house-broken in a kennel setting.
Nor can they give it the amount of socialization and good citizen learning that you can do at home with your family. ( as Howard mentioned above)
Just go pick the pup up . Never heard of this approach before as it goes against everything that anyone recommends for raising a pup.
Some of the very old books recommended kenneling a pup and never even letting your spouse feed it ---but that went out of use several decades ago.

I seldom make posts but thought that in this case --- one was necessary since it could start a pup wrong. Write me personally at email below if you have any questions about what I said. Go pick up the pup before its ninth week begins and make it a part of your family . It sounds like you have done that successfully before.

Marilyn

Windstorm Retrievers mf96nfc@centurytel.net
Home of 1996 NFC AFC Storm's Riptide Star and birthplace of his son 2000 CNAFC CFC Quik Windstorm.
Wisconsin and Georgia
 
#10 ·
Just go pick the pup up . Never heard of this approach before as it goes against everything that anyone recommends for raising a pup.
Some of the very old books recommended kenneling a pup and never even letting your spouse feed it ---but that went out of use several decades ago.

I seldom make posts but thought that in this case --- one was necessary since it could start a pup wrong.
"Headstart pup" = a pitch from one of our favourite British marketeers.

MG
 
#7 ·
If you are retired and have lots of time and experience socializing pups, I would bring the pup home at 8 weeks. You can do all the stuff they will do in the Head Start program and begin house training. I once got an older pup, 14 weeks, not properly socialized but house training was very easy with her. I wish I had the opportunity to get her at 8 weeks because of the socialization issues. The puppy head start programs I've seen all included house training, so I find it odd this one doesn't.
 
#8 · (Edited)
IMO house breaking is pretty much the same, sometimes even easier with an older pup-dog, than a young puppy. Simply because your training a more mature dog, who already interacts and picks-up concepts easier, rather than a puppy to which everything is new. I've seen kenneled-started dogs go home ~16weeks to 1.5yr. none ever had any problem adapting to house-training. An older dog from a kennel-training scenario, is also usually more predictable, they can hold body functions longer, and they usually already come with an airing am/pm routine, (trainers don't like to constantly clean boxes-kennels either ;)). So you just need to adapt that routine to the house. Owners usually train them in a kennel in the house first, then expand that to the entire house, everything else sort've falls into place, quickly. Just my experience.

I've kept a couple pups, for upwards to 6 months, they were out with the big dogs, and interacting everyday, I'm not sure this would be called "head-start; but they got way more exposure to the field, water, gun-fire etc. than they would've with most owners. All adapted fine to their new homes. The only thing I'd be concerned about with the waiting til 16week, is I'd want to ensure my pup was separated from his siblings @ 8wk, When-ever I keep pups in that type of scenario they usually get farmed out to training buddies, for a bit to ensure, that they start developing independence from their litter mates.
 
#9 ·
I think the answer will depend on how they do it. If that pup is pacing in a kennel run all day, that pup will learn to poop wherever he is. Any pups Ive gotten in for training who were raised in a kennel run like that were total slobs. If the breeder will keep pup in a yard area, in the home, and crate train, your odds are better to having a clean pup.
 
#11 ·
House training is all about surfaces. The pup learns to eliminate on a given surface as opposed to inside our outside the house. When he goes to the door it's to get to the grass he's accustomed to crapping on, that's all. Used to take dogs from hay fields to the desert and they all had a heck of a time initially finding a place to poo! Watch closely and you'll see that they usually avoid sidewalks and stone if they're used to grass. Emergencies and accidents occur but if you watch, you can tell they're looking for a different spot if there's no grass around.

Standard regimen will work fine over about a month. In crate while in the house unless 100% supervised. Regular feeding/airing times. Restrict food and water after a set time in the evening.

I have an 18 mo old that was in a kennel her first 6 months and has learned to use the grass now after crate training. I don't know that she's 100% housebroken because she's still a kennel dog but she no longer messes in the kennel after I retrained her.
 
#12 ·
I got my first Lab at the age of four months. He'd been in a kennel and received daily attention from a trainer. He was a great dog in every way. When I finally brought him home, he figured out housebreaking in less than three days. For all I know he got it even sooner--but on the third morning the screen door was unlatched and he went out and around to his designated pooping spot and relieved himself there. He never made a mistake.

This dog never liked linoleum floors, but I have thought that was more an issue of hip dysplasia (his was pretty bad) than of socialization. I could be wrong of course. I never saw anything else that remotely suggested inadequate socialization--he dealt with all new situations with grace and aplomb (and I exposed him to plenty), worked as a therapy dog, competed in obedience, and as a mature dog learned to retrieve and got a Qualifying JAM.

I don't see "kennel" as synonymous with "neglect," but do think it's important to know the trainer.

Amy Dahl
 
#14 ·
Thanks to all for your replies, all are given deep consideration. My predicament is multifaceted. I have had the constant companionship and joy of working with an incredible gundog that I raised and trained from a 7 week old pup. My companion / gundog died suddenly and completely unexpectedly on 9/3/13 and I was dealt a crushing blow at his loss. He passed the day after my birthday and on the opening day of our resident Canada Goose season, ironic in that he lived to hunt geese with me.

I trained, hunted, and ran in both AKC and HRC hunt tests with my companion gundog and all that had the pleasure of watching him work thought of him as very special. He made quick friends with everyone he came into contact with. My constant companion, I am extremely lost and depressed without him at my side.

My daughter just began her freshman year as a recruited soccer player. I am traveling two to three times per week to watch her play. I am retired and have both the time and skill to bring a pup to a very high level gundog status. I was hoping to start working with a more matured pup of 16 weeks toward the end of the soccer season to avoid the conflicts that might occur with that schedule. I also felt that by starting with a chronologically more mature pup this fall, I could work on a variety of early foundational training throughout the fall and winter and have the pup beyond the age when his adult teeth are coming in, moving into the spring and good weather for gundog training drills, yardwork, waterwork, etc.

I tend to train slowly but thoroughly. I train incramentally adding new skill sets as I move the pup along, yet constantly revisiting the fundementals and reinforcing those skills continuously. I recognize that each pup is an individual and handle training related pressure as their maturity and demeanor allow them to. That said, my timing of obtaining a pup is with the hopes that I could move him along enough to hunt with him next season, yet I recognize this will all depend on if in fact he has progressed to the point where he is in fact determined by me to be ready to do so.

I do prefer British / Irish field genetics for the body structure produced. I have also found these Labs to be easily trained and very proficient as gundogs.

Cheers,
Irishwhistler
 
#16 ·
Housetraining wouldn't be my biggest concern in this situation, but rather the whole picture. Some of these "headstart" deals are nothing more than scams to get some more $$, some are for real. I get asked a lot to raise pups. I don't do it because it is time consuming to do it well and I usually have more than enough of my own as it is. It will really depend on who is doing it for you. It can be a real advantage for many people who don't want to go through the little puppy stage but want the socializing and intro to all the good stuff done, but you really, really need to research who is going to be doing that and be assured it is actually being done, that pup isn't just spending those crucial first four months living in a kennel. Otherwise, you are better off taking pup home, putting in a very active boarding/daycare type kennel on the days you are traveling/can't take pup with you. There is nothing wrong with a breeder (or someone else, for that matter) keeping pup til 4 months old or so, if it is done right and to your expectations. I've gotten older pups that did great and pups at 7 weeks that did not.
 
#17 ·
Here is an exceprt from one kennel for a headstart program. If it was like this, I don't see a problem. Research is key to any trainer.

Good Breeding" is essential (see article - How to choose a Super Duck Puppy). After your selection - the puppies socialization is critical - we can help!
Should you not have the time to devote to raising your puppy - We can also help with House Breaking, Crate Training, Teaching the puppy good manners, early obedience (sit, here, heel) and working with your puppy retrieving birds. This a monthly program you are welcome to come participate and visit during the training.
The program is **** a month and includes:

•Raising the puppy in the house, House Breaking, Crate Training, teaching the puppy to walk on a leash, early obedience with sit, here and heel, lots of emphasis on good-manners (no one wants an unruly puppy!), introduction to gun shot, introduction to water and lots of Retriever training with birds.
•We only keep a limited number of puppies - only 2 at time - for optimum attention. If this is something you are interested in, please contact us early!
•We offer private or group classes in puppy training, obedience and use of commands to get your puppy on the right track to making him/her a TRUE "Super Duck Dog" and a well behaved member of your family.
 
#18 · (Edited)
You could always look at a started dog, a tad more money perhaps, but with a started dog you get one you know has some skill, one that will definitely go hunting this season, one that you know will have the look you like, and one that the only thing you might have to worry about is how he'll take to the house. Of course me, I'd do both; get a started dog for this season, then a puppy in the spring, and have 2 dogs, because I also learned a few years ago that I'm unable to handle surprise losses, which leave me with no dog at all. Sure I might be in the poor house for a bit, but life is too short to be that unhappy.
 
#19 ·
A started dog is not an option for me after having asked a number of questions specific to that possibility. Also, I cannot have two dogs at this time.

I am not able to post PM's now because I do not yet have enough posts (10) for the system to grant me permission to post PM's. So, on that note, anyone want to weigh in on the "Headstart" type programs offered by Duckhill Kennels / Robert Milner, or French Creek Kennels?

Thanks,
Irishwhistler
 
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