RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

2 live birds per entry?

17K views 84 replies 30 participants last post by  Happy Gilmore 
#1 ·
What is everyone seeing regarding condition of birds at Hunt Tests? Although AKC requires 2 live birds per entry, I keep hearing that many clubs do not order the required number and use frozen birds from prior tests. A thawed bird on Saturday morning is in real bad shape Sunday afternoon.
 
#41 ·
Seriously Mike? You are comparing FCs to a junior? Dogs trained to amazing levels to dogs barely FF?

what I was conveying Nancy, is that at the very top of the Sport we use the birds in a very conservation minded manor. I have seen hunt test clubs dispatch many more birds than necessary when good previously used birds were available. Lets be respectful of the animals giving their life for our sport and dispatch as few as possible. After all our dogs are the ultimate conservation tool.
Maybe some of those barely FF dogs need to wait a bit before entering a test.
 
#38 · (Edited)
My first hunt test I ever ran, all the birds where confiscated at 7:55 am on Saturday morning leaving the club with Zero birds to run a double junior, double senior, single master (180 total dog enteries over 2 days). The calls went out and people raided their freezers and we scrounged up every training bird from 3 different clubs and dozens of people. We managed to get enough live pigeons for junior and senior and enough chukar for master almost ( a few people had hen pheasant.) I remember listening as they called AKC to tell them they were using pigeons and AKC saying that wasn't permissible and the club president saying that we would use dolkens and bumpers then and AKC responding that pigeons would be ok and to do what they had to to run the test. The birds were not great but you never saw so many people caring and drying the birds. I remember chipping ducks apart that morning so we could get the test going dogs did well and I am proud to have run that test.
 
#42 ·
While your respect for the life of a duck is admirable, does it carry over to the corps of the duck as well? Does it respect this fine animal tossing it until the meat comes from the bone? Does it respect the horse fly? Choosing a spot to lay its eggs, it’s next generation of maggots. Only to be tossed from a winger and then covered with dog slobber and run cross a meadow!
 
#43 ·
Ken, the respect goes to the prudent use of a resource. While not all used birds are equal in quality I dont believe that a trial or a test needs to use more live birds than necessary. I know of the condition of used birds Nancy was mentioning. Having judged for same club. Birds were excellent. Those fresh thawed birds will last longer than a fresh dispatched bird on a warm day. You learn this when you train in the Texas heat.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Ken, the respect goes to the prudent use of a resource. While not all used birds are equal in quality I dont believe that a trial or a test needs to use more live birds than necessary. I know of the condition of used birds Nancy was mentioning. Having judged for same club. Birds were excellent. Those fresh thawed birds will last longer than a fresh dispatched bird on a warm day. You learn this when you train in the Texas heat.
No Mike you do not know what happened that day, you were not in my flight, you were not judging with me. Don't you dare assume you know anything about that weekend. If you want to publicly air what was going on--lets have at it. I have nothing but respect for our animals, including the ones we shoot. So please go spin that crap somewhere else. AND I suggest you go back and read the original thread. This is about hunt tests, where it specifically says in the rule book that two FRESH(Live) birds will be provided for each dog. End. Of. Story.
 
#51 ·
I shouldnt put words in Mike's mouth but. Fresh shot flyers on a very hot day do not cool and thus tend to stink quickly, (unless you proactively take them out of the field and put them in a fridge / freezer to cool them). Recently thawed birds start out cool so tend to take longer than those hot fresh shot flyers to start to decay.

Mark
 
#53 ·
Sounds like a fun experiment to do to me, Unfortunately it may have to wait 7-8 months for warmer weather to try..I know when it is below freezing then it becomes a mute point. I will need two ducks of same weight and sex and plumage, I will need to kill one and then freeze it after an appropriate time (time from shot then retrieved, then hung then back to camp, then taken home then frozen much like a normal trial duck). Then after say two weeks or more it will have to be thawed as it would for use in a test/trial. then I will need to shoot one at about 9 am and retrieved and rotatated into the dead duck station, and retrieved the same number of times as the thawed duck over a course of the day say 10 times over 1st day, then compare, then hang over night in club trailer, then use both of them again the next day and compare, hang one more night and use a third day and compare at end. (third day is for field trial info). I will need a thermometer to moniter temp of ducks on first day and maybe next morning, expect the temp to be the same for both ducks after that..

will also need to recruit several people to compare the ducks in a blind study.. for all three days. Will also try and get info on which duck is easier to find/retrieve with several dogs...

Any other thoughts on how to make it a better comparison?
 
#54 · (Edited)
What is the judge to do with the two live birds per dog that are provided by way of "using" them ?.:confused:

Since schakeling them for use in some way or another in the test is prohibited by the rules, the judges choices are limited to using them as Fliers, or dispatching them humanely for use at the dead bird stations.

It is obvious to me that the two bird rule was instituted so that there would be enough birds available for use, so fresh killed birds could be used in the testing/judging at all stations.


john
 
#58 ·
Hmm, I have some mixed feelings and I agree with both sides of this argument.

A duck shot and cleaned immediately is much easier to pluck and tear open the skin. A duck which is shot in the morning and has cooled completely is tough to pluck and skin at the end of the day. When you're running a trial and it's 80 degrees outside with 90% humidity, there isn't an easy answer to keep things to everyones' liking. Fresh shot ducks from the beginning of a hot day look worse than those which have been used 3-4 times training and re-frozen sometimes.

Hot duck= easy pluck
Cold duck = no luck
 
#66 ·
Every time the dog picks up a flier it runs past a stack of crates. What's the problem?
 
#67 ·
We appear to be going off topic but while here I would like to make one comment on test design.


Poor nose is grounds for elimination, and tests designed to reward the dog that does not honor its nose are counter productive at best


john
 
#68 ·
Poor nose is grounds for elimination, A dog that is out of control or refuses to follow comands/directions/casts is going to be much worse in both the field and a test/trial. I don't think a dog that stops and hunts the 20 odd previous falls on the way out on a blind would be one I would want to hunt with... Blinds should be a test of control and perserverence, if you are using a blind to test Nose on a dog I think that is counter productive. Now running a blind into a trail is a real test of both nose and control, but that is more a NAHRA type test or a real hunting situation and not an AKC type test..
 
#69 ·
We appear to be going off topic but while here I would like to make one comment on test design.


Poor nose is grounds for elimination, and tests designed to reward the dog that does not honor its nose are counter productive at best


john
What about back in the days when you started hunting and they still used live decoys? ehehehee
 
#75 · (Edited)
Actually, it was the shotgun that was made of " brass.".....Gunmetal, also known as red brass in the United States, is a type of bronze – an alloy of copper, tin, and zinc. Originally used chiefly for making guns:p

john
 
#77 ·
Force fetching one of them would be a real nightmare. No ears!

Can't wait for the video regards,
 
#79 ·
Did Chessiesaurs stink too? Probably related to Velocoraptors.

Oops forgot my smilie :)
 
#85 ·
That "Suddenly Senior" article was pretty funny. :)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top