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water help

2K views 15 replies 6 participants last post by  Mark Teahan 
#1 · (Edited)
Here is a pond I think will work for water training.
Bare with me, as I don't know all the correct terms for what I need to train for.

I am starting on a water t. Trap will dive in and go for the opposite shore to a pile of frozen ducks and swim straight back.

Half way across, I can blow on the whistle and he will do over left and right to frozen ducks.


Today was the first day of doing this, so we are just learning to do this.
The problem is running the bank back around the pond from the sides.
How do I get him to grab a duck, turn around and come back in the water?
We also tried some retrieves just off the corner, and he wants to run around the corner on the shore, then dive in, instead of a straight line from me, into the water, and to the duck.
His handling on land is great, but if we are going to advance in doggie games, I am sure we need to fix these issues.
As my hunting buddy only, this wouldn't matter.

What do I need to do or where to start?
 
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#2 ·
The pond is far from ideal for this, but . . . I for sure know all about using whatever ya got! How well does Trap handle? Can you blow a sit whistle and stop him at any time? Then try sending him across a corner to a pile. The second he avoids the water entry, TOOT, and handle directly back into water. That is one way to start. Others may have some more creative ideas with this pond.
 
#3 ·
Hmmm.
Not ideal.... well, this is the pond I was going to take you to. Trap and I went up there today to make sure there was water in it.
I guess, scratch this spot.
To the river we go then.

Yes, trap will sit at whistle. E collar use, when he avoids the back into the water, to run the bank?
 
#8 ·
Mark, I would love to work on this pond. It is just not ideal for where you are at with Trap! I will show you how to use it. It will be fun.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Mark this is what I used
http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/rj11.html

Eventually I would toss a bumper for an angle entry and return, once the dog had a good understanding of what is expected

I tried to proof it at different ponds. It will take a few lessons but it all seems to come together and then I went on to pile work along with floating the dog then water T then swimby

we also did something similar on land to help them keep a line but someone else might have a better way or other ideas but thats what worked for me so far

E
 
#7 ·
So i guess your saying use bumpers in a t pattern?
If so, its going to be hard due to the wind blowing them away from us from the sides of the t...??
The pond is maybe 100x75 yards. Didn't measure it.
This is the first time really working in still water.
Every where else is moving water. He did awesome during last duck season. But, he would go downstream, grab the duck, swim to shore, then run it back up to me. Same upstream, except the current would get him, and be downstream when it's all over, then going to shore and running the bank back up.
So maybe he got it in his head that is what he is supposed to do, but I can't expect him to try to fight the current.
 
#10 · (Edited)
You need to do a lot of repetitions to teach water handling and water force via swim by, so ideally (as Carol says) you would not have dog swimming all the way across such a large pond while learning this. It sounds like Carol has an idea on how to make it work, though.

As far as the bumpers blowing away, try planting them against the shore to which the wind blows so that the wind is merely blowing them against the bank and modify where you run the dog from. After a few runs dog may figure out he is supposed to swim back, and then you can start propping the bumpers up against the shore to keep them from scattering.

I remember seeing a video, I think it was Bill Hillman's, in which the back pile was in the middle of a pond. But sadly I can't find it now to show you. I was surprised that the bumpers did not scatter as the dog swam to them, I wondered if he used something to help keep them in place. I saw Lardy use some submerged cover to hold the bumpers at the BC seminar last year.

Good luck!
 
#13 ·
It's Mrs. 2Tall to you Shawn!;) And yes, ALL of my training is in the desert! You might say I am stuck between the rocks and a high place! And unfortunately we have to be creative and come up with new ways to use whatever water we can find. I am sure that Mark and Trap are perfectly capable of mastering the concepts of swim-by without an engineered swim by pond.:cool:
 
#11 ·
Mark, I just reread your post...I am now thinking I misunderstood your frustration and that my response isn't relevant to the problem you are having.

If dog is getting out on the way to the pile and won't take the casts to stay in the water, this is normal. This is why you do swim by---to teach dog to handle in water.

If Carol can help, wait for her to show you.
 
#12 ·
Mark,

I don't know if you're following an orgainzed program, but it sounds very much like your dog needs to be water forced, and then taken carefully through Swim-by. That pond is quite large for Swim-by, but you can do it. It will just take extra time to walk out the casts and SBs. If he had those skills you could do multiple basic Tune-up drills on that pond, as well as down the shore-type marks.

Evan
 
#14 · (Edited)
Trying to look up swim by......
No idea what that is yet.
I tried watching trt dvd's, but am lost in because trap is trained in something that come later in somethings and not in others. He is a mix of training steps/levels.
He handles great on land and very well in water.
Here was a 163 yard cold blind the other day.
I put a frozen duck behind the little tree, center right. Wind was blowing directly left to right.

He got off line going down the hill and across the wash a little, but let him clear the thicker bushes before doing a whistle sit.

A right over back, and he nailed it.

On land he is great, a few issues, being still young, he is getting it real well.
Remember now, I am uneducated in doing this stuff, and am relating training to hunting.
Now the doggie games come into play, and thru learning how they are played, trying to refine Trap, to those standards.
The angled water entries and swim backs are for the games. His running the banks are fine for hunting because he makes better time on birds floating down in the current.
So he has learned from last season, the bank is your friend, but now in a pond, Im trying to teach him, it's not.
Confusing..
In the doggie games the return isn't judged, correct,?
How much bank running to the retrieve is acceptable before diving in and making the retrieve?

And carol, I think the desert training comment, was a wink, wink, nudge, nudge, comment...
 
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