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RTF-An observation & A Suggestion

43K views 253 replies 67 participants last post by  luvalab 
#1 ·
I took a job assignment requiring me to be in the N British Isles for a year. As a result I have been too busy for internet forums, and haven't visited RTF for months
I came back to the U.S. a few weeks ago due to the death of a close friends dear mother. I have spent a lot of time on the internet in this time; much of that time spent on RTF
I mostly participate as an observer on the main forum as I don't feel I have the training chops to be of much use. The majority of my posting is done on the sub forum, or septic tank, known as POTUS

My observation is that in the 6 months I've been away POTUS & RTF has lost its edge, and sadly and more importantly that the main forum has lost much of it's expertise.
Best I can figure the reason for many wise experienced posters leaving is due to banning of some and indifference of the others.
The indifference to me is understandable, as I already stated that I felt RTF has lost much of its edge and expertise.

A few years ago training questions were debated & answered by accomplished Amateurs such as Jim Pickering, Captain Jack and competition pros like Christie Wilder and Angie Becker. Health and breeding questions were answered by knowledgeable experienced experts such as Erinsedge or Melanie Foster
The banning is an unknown mystery for me in that I don't know the reasons for the banning Only those banned and the janitor {and possibly a man & woman from Wisconsin} would be privy to those facts.
I was somewhat surprised at the results of the recent Amnesty poll, where the majority voted "NO" on amnesty

My surprise stems from the fact that I don't understand the usefulness of censorship; which is in effect what the banning results in. It's the internet folks!! What is said on here really can't harm you Grow a thicker skin folks. To me it would be worth it to read 20 insulting or frivolous comments from any of the six ex posters listed above for the possibility of finding that helpful tip that could help me to solve a problem in my training or possibly enhance the health or well being of my pet.

Ask yourselves if you feel that RTF is a better or worse resource without the input of the 6 ex posters referred to; as well as the numerous others who have been banned or quit posting due to indifference. I would argue that the major asset of a resource like RTF is the collective wisdom of its participants; without that you have nothing. However Im aware it is the janitors asset to do with it as he pleases. If the banned don't like it they can either grovel for forgiveness or create a better mousetrap

In my time off I have randomly checked the credentials of posters on recent threads and compared them to posters on some older threads. The difference was substantial. Nature abhors a vacuum, so without the input of the old experts you have some wannabes with a SR Hunter or couple of Jr passes offering up their solutions. There have been recent threads about supposed solutions to problems at the line; simple research reveals that the poster is still not having success while muddling around in middle or lower level Hunt Tests This wouldn't have happened & would have been exposed on the old RTF
IMO the resource is markedly diminished due to the absence of these folks. Apparently the rationale for banning is to promote a more peanutty atmosphere. If you look at the recent abuse heaped on Jennifer Henion by some on a thread dealing with a humorous youtube video of a guy yelling at his out of control dog and TooTalls less than peanutty treatment in the LeanMac thread I would say it appears that the peanut rule can be randomly applied, depending on who is involved. I sort of saw the need for both of those posters to get slapped around a bit, and would definitely not advocate any sanctions.
Monday Ill be heading back across the big pond for a few months, hopefully upon my return RTF will have welcomed in some new and old wisdom.
 
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#3 ·
I'm not arguing with your point, just also making an observation.

There still is a good number of experienced dog people that post on here often. If I have a question, I feel I'll get a decent answer from somebody, just have to sift through the replies and make my own decision about who is right. It may take a new member a little while to figure out who these people are, but they're out there.

RTF is still a great site and I'm thankful to have the resource.
 
#6 ·
So you believe "slapping around" the ones you don't like is a good use of this forum? As mentioned, some of the "favorites" left on their own, one is not training dogs anymore, and some were just plain nasty. As you said, it's the Internet. Take what you can from it and move on. If the only comments appreciated are from a certain group the discussion will get pretty boring. Bon Voyage.
 
#12 ·
Carol, I don't know you, but I know you've been around for a good long while, and your comments demonstrate kindness and self-deprecation that perhaps don't work to your benefit and that some others could maybe consider sometimes. You are ballast to a top-heavy ship with lots of (hot) wind (air) in its sails.

I hope that sometimes you use the PM feature to deliver a pithy two-word message. I don't know if it would make you feel any better--but it makes me feel better to imagine it!!!

RTF will weather this storm, lull, whatever. There are too many good people (still) here, and the good ones who are gone are contributing in some other way in a medium more suited to them. It's all good.
 
#8 ·
what's that phrase or saying someone posted a few years ago? goes something like, In the beginning you know nothing and try to learn everything then, (at the most annoying stage) you think you know everything and share all of your knowledge. As you keep on going you finally realize you know almost nothing. By the time you know something worth sharing your probably due to retire....

I think too many folks who post a lot anymore are in that (think you know everything) stage. The slap-downs were common not because of any dislike for a person but, to help them move forward. Slap downs often move the person on to the correct (realize you know nothing) stage.
 
#14 ·
what's that phrase or saying someone posted a few years ago? goes something like, In the beginning you know nothing and try to learn everything then, (at the most annoying stage) you think you know everything and share all of your knowledge. As you keep on going you finally realize you know almost nothing. By the time you know something worth sharing your probably due to retire....

I think too many folks who post a lot anymore are in that (think you know everything) stage. The slap-downs were common not because of any dislike for a person but, to help them move forward. Slap downs often move the person on to the correct (realize you know nothing) stage.
I would add one more category - those who have known so much for so long that they have forgotten what it was like to know you didn't know, while desperately wanting to know. Not knowing something doesn't make you stupid, it just makes you a beginner. Training your first dog is a lot like trying to put a jigsaw puzzle together without the picture; it's hard when you really don't know what it is supposed to look like when you are through.

I fully expect to get told I am wrong every time I post something on here (it certainly happens a lot when I am training) and that's the way I learn and get forced to think about alternate approaches. But the ones I really appreciate are those folks - and I have at least three - who can tell me I am being a dumba$$ about something without calling me one. That difference is significant, at least to me, and I suspect to several others on this forum.

JMHO, YMMV.
 
#13 ·
People aren't dogs.

That said, sir, I always pay attention to your advice on dogs.

It's all good.
 
#17 ·
Participation is a privilege, not a right.
The banished were sent off for their refusal to honor the privilege.
The janitor offered the banished multiple opportunities to change their behavior.
They did not, and they suffered the consequences.

There was a poll on this issue and the members of RTF voted by a margin of over 2 to 1 in favor of not having the banished return.
However, it seems that some are unwilling to accept by the decision of the janitor and the desires of the majority.
 
#20 ·
Technically we have over 5k users and only a few hundred votes on that thread. That's roughly only 4% of the rtf population that voted. Therefore you can't really say "the members" are in favor of doing anything. Course you may just be getting conditioned to in your state. How you coming on turning in your guns and learning to smoke pot?

:)

/Paul
 
#22 ·
Technically we have over 5k users and only a few hundred votes on that thread. That's roughly only 4% of the rtf population that voted. Therefore you can't really say "the members" are in favor of doing anything. Course you may just be getting conditioned to in your state. How you coming on turning in your guns and learning to smoke pot?

:)

/Paul
This is why we need to show up ,like Amy said....The old saying of the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" still holds true...We need to make more noise if we are to see things continue as is or go to pot as some would like to see...Steve S
 
#18 ·
Thats true. Dogs learn with a good correction. Most people don't :)

Haha how true.

Im a newbie and don't know any of the people that have been banned.
I wonder how many people left because of the banned rips and comments.
I just wonder how much they could have been a benefit to RTF, we'll never know.
CONSTRUCTIONAL CRITICISM is welcome.
Personal attacks and plain nastiness should not be allowed
 
#23 ·
As someone else said, it's summer time. People are out training dogs, taking the family on vacation and such so participation is down. Happens every year.

In the winter more people post, there's more content but there's also more snarkyness as people get cabin fever.

I agree that some needed to go. I also agree that RTF is not what it once was, both for experienced training advice and just the atmosphere of the place. In part, IMO, because some have left for one reason or another that added content and flavor to the board, a handful of classic/mainstays of RTF have passed, and there are WAY more thin skinned members over the last couple of years that sick the mods on posters at the drop of a hat.

Like everything else, there is an ebb and flow to RTF. You either ride the tide or get out of the water.
 
#40 ·
... RTF is not what it once was, both for experienced training advice and just the atmosphere of the place. In part, IMO, because some have left for one reason or another that added content and flavor to the board, a handful of classic/mainstays of RTF have passed, and there are WAY more thin skinned members over the last couple of years that sick the mods on posters at the drop of a hat.
So true....reminds me of the good ole days of the "Bait O Lympics" where it became a sport to annoy certain whiney, thin-skinned members, mostly internet heros, mainly by calling them out on their, ahem, exaggerations/resume padding. You got a bronze medal if your slap resulted in one of them tattling on you or complaining about you to a moderator. Silver medals were for being threatened with lawsuits (rallying cry of white trash everywhere "I'll SUE YOU!") and the Olympic Gold Medal winning Master Baiters were the ones that received death threats.
 
#26 ·
This is perhaps the most useless thread of all time.
 
#28 ·
I don't know... Are we talking RTF? Or all of the web?

It is raining, and I am doing school work. That's my excuse.
 
#29 ·
"Junior Modding", "Backseat Modding", or "Forum copping" can refer negatively to the behavior of ordinary users who take a moderator-like tone in criticizing other members."

I have noticed more than a healthy amount of this going on by a few...........So from now on when you see me post BM to a quoted passage...be carefull you don't always confuse it with the generic BS which of course it may also be;)

john
 
#32 ·
Four pages and both Fallon and Shih have weighed in.

This thread either needs to pick up some speed or be left by all to slowly die.

Poll, anyone?
 
#33 ·
Four pages and both Fallon and Shih have weighed in.

This thread either needs to pick up some speed or be left by all to slowly die.

Poll, anyone?
The correct or incorect, good or bad, consequence of the lamentations of the OP...........


john
 
#37 ·
Personally, I like variety. If someone who "doesn't know anything," gives me a good idea that just happens to work, I'm as happy as a hooker at the high roller table. I think it's true for any discipline. Of course a bit of salt in a fresh wound adds a bit of entertainment, as well.

What the heck is keeping you so busy in the N. British Isles that you don't have time for a doggy forum? Anyway, have a safe journey back. I'm sure there is alot of value in your observations.
 
#44 ·
"Junior Modding", "Backseat Modding", or "Forum copping" can refer negatively to the behavior of ordinary users who take a moderator-like tone in criticizing other members."

Fallon made this quote in an earlier post. I don't know where it came from. It wasn't attributed. Maybe another thread?
It rings true however.
BTW Smillerdvm, as to your OP. Potus and RTF have always been cliquish. The best part of banning has always been to watch them eat their own. :p
Someone mentioned the woo-woo bird....JD
 
#45 ·
"Junior Modding", "Backseat Modding", or "Forum copping" can refer negatively to the behavior of ordinary users who take a moderator-like tone in criticizing other members."

Fallon made this quote in an earlier post. I don't know where it came from. It wasn't attributed. Maybe another thread?
It rings true however.
BTW Smillerdvm, as to your OP. Potus and RTF have always been cliquish. The best part of banning has always been to watch them eat their own. :p
Someone mentioned the woo-woo bird....JD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum#Moderators

Sorry, Look under 2.1.1

john
 
#47 ·
Where is Bait, anyway? I don't know him from Adam, but I think he was nice and talked about dogs.
 
#51 ·
The majority of my posting is done on the sub forum, or septic tank, known as POTUS
There is a Civics lesson of sorts to be had on POTUS - I would venture the moderates/conservatives who actually are can claim credentials vastly superior to those on the main forum.

Jim Pickering,
In case you missed it, Jim was a finalist at the recent NARC. As someone who trains his own dogs that is a full time endeavor unto itself. I miss Jim on the investing threads we used to have on POTUS.

My surprise stems from the fact that I don't understand the usefulness of censorship; which is in effect what the banning results in.
I don't either - but we don't have a say in that.................

If you look at the recent abuse heaped on Jennifer Henion by some on a thread dealing with a humorous youtube video of a guy yelling at his out of control dog and TooTalls less than peanutty treatment in the LeanMac thread I would say it appears that the peanut rule can be randomly applied, depending on who is involved. I sort of saw the need for both of those posters to get slapped around a bit, and would definitely not advocate any sanctions.
I thought Paul's remark was an instant classic :cool:.

Monday Ill be heading back across the big pond for a few months, hopefully upon my return RTF will have welcomed in some new and old wisdom.
Have a safe trip - tell us when you get back how socialism is working for the Brits :p.
 
#61 ·
Dr. Ed got one of those red headed goldens from Melanie? I am sure that Holland would like that if it was a "she".... Charlie Brown had a red headed girlfriend.
 
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