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To get the same breed, or different?...

9K views 41 replies 28 participants last post by  KevinsKennels 
#1 ·
OK so here's a little background, I have a 2yo CLM who is the best duck dog I have ever had. He sits calmly in the boat or field, does not break (at least so far), does not wine while waiting, makes excellent marks and multiple blind retrieves, can somewhat cast ( trained myself, never sent away for PRO training) excellent family pet and super friendly to everyone and any dogs. With that being said, I also pheasant hunt a lot and he is IMO not a pheasant hunting dog. He will make retrieves, flush, and hunt for them but never hard or fast. He will not work birds around anybody but me since he always stays within 30 yards at all times from me and comes to check in with me very frequently. Not saying this is a bad trait but not exactly what I want in a pheasant dog. So here's my question. Do I consider getting another lab for pheasant hunting only and keep him nice and calm for waterfowl. Or get a different breed all together? It would be nice for him to have a kennel mate also.


Note: I do not want to breeds dogs, that's not my department or expertise. He is a outside dog by himself in a very large 30'x50' outside kennel with heated dog house so there is plenty of room to put separate runs for two dogs.
 
#2 ·
I love American Water Spaniels, truely as good in the blind and in the field. I have had labs and Chessie's, none could hold a candle to the Spaniel's in the field. There alot of breeders up your way.
 
#3 ·
I've always wanted a GSP for pheasants but like I said they will be outside dogs here in MN. Given I built a very nice large dog house with plenty of insulation and heat, winters still get to tough for short hair breeds. I've been looking at Brittany's but I may give those water spaniels a look now.
 
#4 ·
I have a Lab, GSP and Spinone. While the Spinone is neither as good a retriever as the Lab or as flashy a field dog as the GSP, he is good enough at pretty much everything. Had I known how to train him better 4 years ago I probably wouldn't have made my first comments. They are just stubborn and its something you have to deal with when they are young. In the field, they require very little training for guys that are just looking for hunting dogs. As retrievers, they are eager and talented (excellent swimmers) but they play lots of games when they are pups. They have a nose like no other dog and they are super intelligent. The lopey style is not for everyone, however.
 
#30 ·
I have a Lab, GSP and Spinone. While the Spinone is neither as good a retriever as the Lab or as flashy a field dog as the GSP, he is good enough at pretty much everything.
If you're prepared to empty the gold out of your saddlebags to get a gundog, no finer or more fun piece of work to work with.




With the possible exception of dynamite that comes in a little smaller package



MG
 
#6 ·
I tend to go for a quality dog, rather than trying out new breeds or colors. Labradors are a very hard breed to beat as gundogs; waterfowl or upland. Get a good one, and you have a strong dog for those uses.

Evan
 
#7 ·
For pheasants, I will always choose to shoot over brittanys. Just my personal preference. Your current lab might surprise you though with more exposure to the upland game. He sounds like my older female when she was younger. I hunted her exclusively on dove and waterfowl her first 2 years due to the low numbers of upland birds. But as the numbers came back I got her out on pheasants more and more. She wanted to stay near me at first and obviously didn't know what was going on for awhile, but we spent a lot of time working on quartering and once she started to learn there were birds out there to find, she turned into a really solid pheasant dog.
 
#15 ·
^^^This minus the brittany's. ;) Your pup needs more exposure. The first time out my dog didn't leave my side. I literally had to push him with my boot(no I didn't kick him!). Now, when we're in top form he ranges out looking for birds using the wind. If I turn he'll see me and go with me, but stay out still looking for birds. Give it more time and birds.
 
#8 ·
Start working your dog with some spaniels, they will show him a trick or two and since they cover a ton of ground fast, he will be encouraged to do the same in order to find birds or get left out. That said, a working UK line cocker is NOT for everyone! VERY busy in the house, super intelligent yet often VERY soft. They are often mixed with flying squirrel genes, as mine can bounce off of a hotel bed, and somehow end up on top of the 6 1/2ft tall entertainment center. :(
Springers are a lot more "low key" and they are great upland dogs. And if you have never had a dog with that type of coat, be prepared to be picking out burrs and sticky weeds.
 
#10 ·
IMO springers are overrated. They work well on short fields with low thin cover. Just get another lab and be done with it.
 
#11 ·
I am strongly leaning twords another lab. But I just wanted everybody's opinion. I have been looking for breeders with pups due early spring and have been overwhelmed with the amount of lab breeders out there. Just trying to find a good suit for what I want. Thanks guys for the info!
 
#16 ·
'Never hunted MN Roosters but if they are few and far between, heavily pressured and your hunting denser cover in smaller plots i.e. not Kansas, A hard working pheasant dog at 30 yards puts more game in your bag. Expect to spend some money on pheasant farms and over time make it more difficult (longer between fewer birds) to build the perseverance. Dog's gotta believe theres a bird in every field.

Hunted with a guy last year whose dog had it too easy in the preserves - finally got him out after some wild ones and the dog quit after an hour.

Lotsa bird, lotsa balance, good OB before hitting the field. And buy a good breeding.
 
#12 ·
Pheasants are the Springer Spaniels specialty. There's a field trial Oct 26 & 27 in Owatonna, MN. Go walk in the gallery or offer to carry the shag basket. You'll get a good idea of whether or not that's what you're looking for.
 
#13 ·
methinks you need a golden!
At the Spaniel hunt tests we ran recently no less than a half dozen people came up to me and commented that the "best pheasant dog they ever had" was a golden.
:)
 
#14 ·
Just train the one you have in upland. He will pick it up. We never trained for upland and went to our first Grand never expecting to go the the 5th series. Taught the girl how to upland hunt the night before the grand upland test and she quartered like she has been upland hunting for years.
 
#20 ·
Springers are excellent retrievers. I think they should be allowed to retrieve the birds they produce as a reward.

While the Golden in my avatar was a fantastic pheasant dog, he wasn't as fast at trailing a running bird as my Springers have been. When he got on a runner, it might take a couple hundred yards to produce it where my Springers tend to push them out sooner. The other advantage of a Springer is their endurance. They are simply built for the job and will still be hunting hard when a retriever has slowed to a trot.

At the end of the day, I am of the opinion that choosing a breed is such a personal decision, any advice you get should be overshadowed by whatever breed appeals to your eye. You will be happier in the long run if you like to look at your dog doing his job.
 
#28 ·
I don't understand the problem. you have a dog that hunts within gun range flushes and retrieves birds and you are not happy with him? I have seen many people with the best pheasant dog ever that spend more time hunting the dog than hunting birds and watching birds flushing out of range and gone. I train mine to stay within shotgun range as I am nearing 60 I can't and will not run after a lab on a running pheasant. They sit to a whistle or else.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Best waterfowl dog I've ever had = Lab, Best upland dog I've ever had =Lab. Not to say they were the same dog, because they most determinately were not. The waterfowl-er, was too big to get into the ruff, ditches etc. and would wear out after a couple of hours in the upland field. The upland dog would get bored in the duck blind, and was too small to fight river current like the bigger dog. Best part was that both of them were passable at the other hunt type and could work well together. I don't think breed matters as much as a dog having the correct build, perseverance and personality required for the skill set. I ran a Rottweiler that was a good upland flusher, she was hard mouthed and a terrible retriever, but she did try, and was very remorseful for crushed birds, still she could find and put up the birds, she loves it and could run for hours.
 
#32 ·
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my lab But he is 105 lbs and 25" tall. Very big guy, looks like a grizzly bear cub carrying geese back but he gets so Tuckered out after 1 hour of thick cover upland hunting. If I do get another lab I want to find a smaller parent litter. I love all breeds of dogs! That's what make this decision so hard. Each and every breed has something different and amazing to offer!
 
#33 ·
I agree (as in previous post) the build of the Lab is important to endurance. Per field trial bred - you're likely to get that 'feature'. However understanding the sire/dam build helps. Previous dog below would go all day (at my pace) at 82 lbs.

 
#35 ·
All heck let me throw my $0.02 in. Check out the curly coated retriever. They are big enough to handle various game and athletic enough to go all day in the upland fields. I know a guy in Mi who hunts with his out of a canoe. And he's easily 27-28" at the shoulder and 90-100lbs. Also there's a breeder MN. Who would be glad to show you how hard these dogs work. There's also the notion these dogs don't like water. Well someone lied to my pup. Doesn't hurt that his momma is a CH/MH. So you can get looks and drive in this breed. Now they do have there flaws as they don't mature as quickly as other breeds. My pup didn't start losing teeth until 6-7 mo. and finished at 8 mo. They are thinkers so owners need to stay on top of the training. I must say though one nice feature is after getting wet it only takes a couple of shakes and they are almost completely dry.
 
#36 ·
To the OP, you might want to take a look at the Springer. I've owned Labs and Goldens and now have a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. However, my brother, who lives in northern MN, has a Springer that he uses on SD pheasants and MN grouse and ducks. Says he's the best dog he's ever hunted over and he's been around a lot of dogs. Cold weather is not a problem for his Springer. Last year, he was offered big money by the owners of one SD hunting lodge for his Springer after they saw him put up so many birds. There's no price he would take. Good luck on your decision and good hunting.
 
#37 ·
i love labs have had them as pheasant dogs my whole life and wouldn't trade them. other breeds are great also, ive had a springer and she was fun to watch and a very good pheasant dog. Ive had no name labs that I got from a farmer and they where awesome out hunting really expensive gsp and spaniels and some other labs also. A big dog will be able to have indurance, just like an athlete they need training and work. Go run a mile and see how u do, run every day a lil bit and run a mile later and see how u do same concept towards dogs for hunting imo. I had a buddy who had a gsp and I had my lab and in their prime they were unstoppable together and so fun to watch it was surprising how well they worked together. I enjoyed it so much that ive considered getting a gsp to run with my lab for pheasants. I was thinking I have my lab now not even a year old wait prolly 2 years get a gsp and 5 or 6 god willing more years get another lab and repeat just a thought I had but I love labs and ill always have a lab in my house if not a couple
 
#39 ·
Is there a breed other than labs?

Lonnie Spann
 
#40 · (Edited)
If you're looking for a different breed nothing is going to beat a spaniel in the pheasant field and they are all very natural retrievers and can be trained nonslip just as your lab is. I'm partial to english cockers, but a field bred springer or a boykin would probably fit the bill perfectly for you as well and might be a bit easier to train than a cocker... they're a bit quirky to say the least hahaha. However my guy will upland hunt for hours without slowing down. They have incredible speed and stamina.
 
#41 ·
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Labs, but a springer spaniel is my preference for upland game. My springer spaniels covers a lot of ground, even in heavy cover, and seems to have a better nose than any lab my dogs have ran with (I may be bias on this one ;)). They are a smart dog too, but sometime too smart for their own good because they can be difficult at times training. All of mine are speed demons in the field and very calm in the house. My buddies all have labs and it is really great when they run together; you get the speed and the more methodical slower lab that make a GREAT combo too. It seems to make the birds a little more antsy and get up instead of running in WI.
 
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