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Marks during force work

5K views 19 replies 13 participants last post by  TonyLattuca 
#1 ·
What do most pros do with marking during force work? Do y'all continue to throw marks during force fetch if not when do you pick back up throwing marks? I've done it both ways and think it depends on the dog but just wanted your opinion since you've seen more dogs and the pros and cons of it.
 
#3 ·
Some dogs tolerate marks just fine during FF.. Many others tend to break all the acceptable standards while acquiring this skill set. If marking is breaking down the skills you're trying to build stop marking until you have standards in place to correct these errors.

Evan
 
#8 ·
Glad to. If you have the SmartFetch DVD you'll note in the opening moments that I advise the trainer "By all means I think you should mark your dog." I stand by that, unless you find yourself working against the very standards you are spending 2 sessions a day trying to establish by doing it. To each his/her own. But it has always seemed unfair to work diligently to work toward a consistent set of standards, while requiring the dog to sort out why it's okay to do it one way here, but not at all okay there. If that rationale doesn't make sense to you that's fine. But holding off on marks for a week or two while you establishing standards to work with in the field has never shown a negative impact in the literally several hundred dogs I've FF'd, and has, I believe, ended up shortening the overall process by not sending mixed signals.

Evan
 
#5 ·
what if they start mouthing issues while marking in the field during force fetch? whatcha gonna do?
 
#6 ·
My dogs are marking before we start force fetch, they have no hold or delivery requirements then. Why wouldn't I continue to mark them during force fetch? Usually, two to three weeks into force fetch you can start upholding the standards for hold and delivery, but not until then.
 
#7 ·
Thank you for posting something so brilliantly common sensical, Howard.
 
#12 ·
Evan - Let me ask my question another way so maybe your answer will get through my thick scull.

If I decide it would be detrimental to mark my dog during force fetch at what point in the FF process would you consider it sound training to resume marking? In other words when is it ok to enforce the FF standard in the field?

Thank you for your time.
 
#13 ·
When you read in your dog that he is not dropping, rolling, or mouthing the fetch object...needing frequent reminders and/or corrections. That should indicate that your dog understands his job, even though he's not finished with the coursework yet. If you are seeing in your daily sessions behavior that indicates these problems should seldom occur, mark him. His behavior in the field will tell you if your read is correct, and that includes ease of corrections if he needs it. One more time...I think you should mark your dog unless or until he shows you it's detrimental to his training.

Evan
 
#15 ·
I generally don't do any marking during FF. I want the dog to get through it quickly and I like to have morning and evening sessions. My best dogs got through it quickly.
 
#16 ·
I will do it while dog is still on table. Once they move to the ground, then no-no retrieving until they are delivering to heel the right way.
Most of the dogs I get in for training have not been started right and already have horrible retrieve habits. My job is to eliminate them-
Have FF'd hundreds of dogs this way -
 
#17 ·
I will do it while dog is still on table. Once they move to the ground, then no-no retrieving until they are delivering to heel the right way.
Most of the dogs I get in for training have not been started right and already have horrible retrieve habits. My job is to eliminate them-
Have FF'd hundreds of dogs this way -
I think where guys like Howard and I are coming from is that of the serious amateur. As amateurs who have been around the block with more than a few dogs, we start our dogs marking at an early age, way before FF. Through means other than FF we get them to deliver to hand. We generally have good dogs with lots of drive who drive out and pick up the bumper or bird naturally, and it isn't hard to get them to bring the bird back and heel by our side with bird in mouth. We studiously avoid cheating water, cover or situations that require a trained response. In other words we start our dogs right. I can a pro is typically in a different situation.

John
 
#19 ·
I'm in the same camp as Howard....there has to be something in it for the dog and the retrieve (marks) is what they live for....it's a balance.
 
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