Laddie (a.k.a. Lucky) report for his friends, fans, and the generally curious

[afdahl]

A brief update as I'm really, really busy, but I know some RTFers are curious.

Laddie finished force-fetching some time ago. Owing to the general insanity of December (everybody seems to want to see their retriever trainer) he had some time off, but has now got started in the field. So far he has shown good marking, range, and vision, impressive persistence, excellent use of his nose (surprise, surprise), and courage in the water. He seems oblivious to water temperature, having one of those dense Golden undercoats that stays dry. He is fast, stylish, and has nice movement.

By "impressive persistence," I mean on his second day of field work he hunted a mark for 10 minutes before coming up with it--a good area hunt that showed a positive sense of where it was (in kind of dense cover in shallow water). Given that it took me three weeks to get this dog interested enough to play retrieve consistently, I was pleasantly surprised.

Laddie does want to cheat, but in a short lesson yesterday where he got yelled at and called back, learned to go and come back straight across a small oblong piece of water. All I know about his memory so far is that he will do hand-thrown doubles and triples.

I admit he needs some work on bird handling. Hope to get that taken care of soon.

I enjoy working with this dog a lot. One thing I particularly like about him is that, while being puppyish and enthusiastic, he seems to operate by conscious decision, rather than impulsively like so many retrievers. Based on what he has shown so far, he has a place here for the foreseeable future.

I feel like I stole him from Melanie, but when I think back, I did at the time fear that I would have to put him down, or be stuck for a long time with a marginal dog I could not place. So it was a gamble that is paying off, so far, in the fun I am having training him.

Amy Dahl

[Judy Chute]

Amy..so nice to see the update .."I feel like I stole him from Melanie.."

What a "steal" !!!!!

Don't forget us from time to time...did I see "Lucky" in your avatar not long ago?

Judy

[MRGD]

great news.

[Steve Amrein]

That's good news. Have you found any triggers that may set him off. If its not a wiring issue what things may have got him to that point. Is he more difficult to train than other dogs. This whole saga is quite interesting to me. Maybe I should have been a animal behaviorist when I grew up. Good luck on continued success and thanks for likely changing the fate of the dog.

[Anne Everett]

What a nice piece of information to start the day! Sounds like a structured enviroment, lots of exercise and training have been just what Laddie needed. Thanks for the update Amy. Keep us posted.

[Miriam Wade]

Thanks for giving him a second chance!!

M

[afdahl]

Originally Posted by Steve Amrein

That's good news. Have you found any triggers that may set him off. If its not a wiring issue what things may have got him to that point. Is he more difficult to train than other dogs.

I do not believe Laddie is "wired wrong" in any way. I think it is a case of too much dog for the household. His history with me includes about three weeks of trying to get him interested in a play retrieve, followed by maybe two weeks on the truck doing easy singles, then force fetching, with some gaps where I didn't have time to work my own dogs. Then his second day on the truck he puts on a 10-minute area hunt in cold water. This dog has got some drive. He has also got a lot of brains. He is not the first Golden I've trained that I thought I didn't come close to discovering the limits of his intelligence. Sorry for the syntax, but he's one smart dog.

Brains and drive, in your average suburban household where they expect a Golden retriever to lie around looking gentle and beautiful. He copes as best he can by finding his own entertainment. The only good games he plays are those he makes up: keep-away, maybe, and "I've got it you can't have it." The people start to try to take control of his behavior. They try one thing, clumsily, and before getting anywhere they switch tactics. Overall their behavior toward the dog is incoherent.

According to my contacts who deal with dog behavior problems, this is a familiar scenario. Dogs that don't necessarily have ambitions to vie for "alpha status" can start pushing the people around either to get what they want, or simply to create some coherency to the relationship. I'm glad that Laddie's people decided to give him up before he got to that point.

No, he is not difficult to train. He is delightful to train. In my experience, a lot of Goldens are already accustomed to "running the show" when they come to me. Then we may have a combined battle of wills and of wits before they agree to work with me. (As I have said before, this is a gradual process, not a confrontational one.) Laddie has bought into what I am trying to do with him from day one. He is smart, cooperative, can handle pressure, and wants to work.

My thoughts on what happened with Melanie. My guess is that keep-away was already Laddie's favorite game when Melanie took him back, and when he had the opportunity to grab a tissue from the trash, escalated quickly into a high level of "arousal." This is an established risk factor for a bite. Melanie then got him by the collar and he started thrashing around--he wanted to play his game. If anything, he got even higher. Then she wrestled him onto his back, which I gather took some time and effort. Pretty offensive for a dog that may or may not have had much respect for humans, especially as I believe dogs don't generally remember their breeders, making her a stranger. A lot of dogs would bite for a lot less. When he did bite, he didn't go for her face, but for her fingers, which were actually holding him.

Remember that some level of aggression is normal in all organisms. Social interaction would be impossible without it. The real question is whether a dog or person expresses it appropriately or not.

I've found Laddie to have good bite inhibition. I've handled him roughly, grabbed him suddenly and by surprise, picked him up, turned him over, tossed him in the air, and he tolerates it all well. He had to be force fetched before he would deliver a bird (he really likes birds), but he does that now, too.

To me, the sobering message is that the working-bred dogs I like so well--of all three main retrieving breeds--really are not the best dogs for everybody, and may be unsuitable for pet homes. Even when they have good, solid temperaments, the drive and intelligence may make them serious, even dangerous misfits.

Amy Dahl

[twall]

Originally Posted by afdahl

To me, the sobering message is that the working-bred dogs I like so well--of all three main retrieving breeds--really are not the best dogs for everybody, and may be unsuitable for pet homes. Even when they have good, solid temperaments, the drive and intelligence may make them serious, even dangerous misfits.

Amy Dahl

Amy,

I love that statement! That is the truth!

Thanks for the update.

Tom

[Gun_Dog2002]

Originally Posted by afdahl

To me, the sobering message is that the working-bred dogs I like so well--of all three main retrieving breeds--really are not the best dogs for everybody, and may be unsuitable for pet homes. Even when they have good, solid temperaments, the drive and intelligence may make them serious, even dangerous misfits.

Amy Dahl

Amen Amy.

/Paul

[Janice Gunn]

To me, the sobering message is that the working-bred dogs I like so well--of all three main retrieving breeds--really are not the best dogs for everybody, and may be unsuitable for pet homes. Even when they have good, solid temperaments, the drive and intelligence may make them serious, even dangerous misfits.

Amy Dahl[/quote]

BINGO!

I had no doubt in my mind that Laddie would turn out the way he did.
He's a normal every day golden with normal everyday behaviours.
It is totally, and I mean totally amazing how people can ruin even the
best of dogs - (had they a chance).
Yet, it's blamed on hard wiring - the stud dog - the bitch - anything
but what it really is - the owners.

Amy - you go girl