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AKC HT Scenario, Position for Sending on a Blind

4K views 21 replies 13 participants last post by  Kenneth Niles Bora 
#1 ·
A discussion came up the other day in training pertaining to the position a handler may send a dog on a blind. As per the AKC HT rules, page 23, section 13; Position. When ordered to retrieve, the handler shall direct his dog from any position designated by the Judges.


Scenario: AKC Senior HT. Judges do NOT specify that dog must be sent from handlers side/heel position on a blind. Team comes to the line, handler puts dog in front facing position, sends dog on BACK. Dog successfully executes the retrieve.


Question(s): Has anyone ever encountered this scenario? Was the handler told they could not do that? Has anyone ever been specifically instructed to send a dog on a blind from a front facing position in an AKC Senior or Master Test?
 
#11 ·
When hunting flooded timber we put the dog on a stump or log and had to remote cast to send dog on mark or blind...I had a friend that sat the dog 15 feet from the blind in standing corn when hunting geese ....Steve S
 
#4 ·
Really? Had no idea. So just to clarify: In field trials, a handler may be asked to put dog in a front sit facing it's handler to be sent on a blind?

That is interesting! That had never occurred to me.

In a way, I could see that as helpful in a Senior Hunt Test for someone whose dog takes poor initial lines or has a head swinging issue, but WILL take a straight BACK from a front sit.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I have run it in both FTs and HTs but more often in FTs. I agree with John that it is contrived, but many things are. Judges often will build factors such as a brush pile if their grounds don't have a lot of them, so this isn't that much different. Coming up with a hunting scenario is more difficult. Since "we don't want everyone to line this blind" you would have to be more creative, although I am sure it would somehow start with "you are running late and your buddies are already in the field" :)

I can see how it might be an advantage to the right Senior dog--especially since it would feel more like FTP--but hopefully folks would not be running a dog in SH yet if they could not do such a simple blind without issues.

If you wanted to send your dog from a remote sit in a test or trial, I would not stop you as a judge, but I think you would be hurting yourself for the most part.
 
#8 ·
This is a little off the topic but in a HT can a judge instruct you to not allow your dog to line the blind that if it does you have to stop it and cast it back so they can see that the dog handles.
 
#12 ·
Hunted a place in Alaska for years where we layed out on the ice in mummy blinds. We had the dogs stationed about 40 yards behind us in the edge of the woods. We put insulated mats there for the dogs to sit on. When we knocked ducks down into the river, we would send the dogs. After the retrieve, they were told to kennel and they went back to the mats to wait for the next opportunity. No problem... One was a trial/HT dog, one was a HT dog. Both were full time hunting dogs.
 
#13 ·
I have done as described successfully in a AKC Senior Hunting test several times.

Once I inherited a older, struggling JH dog that for the first few months I had him on his blinds he would no go, spin, growl, try to bite, bite, pop 3ft off line after sending and then come after me teeth bared, but if I got him ten yards off the line the rest of his blinds were okay. We struggled for a few weeks until I figured out if I started his blinds on a ten yard remote it took the pressure off both of us and all the aforementioned problems pretty much went away and his blinds got better and better. Soon I shortened his remote sends from 10 yards down to 5 yards, 5 feet and by the second month down to 5 inches. We passed his first three Seniors in a row on remote sends just inches from me. You have never seen judges go into a quicker huddle and discussion or a gallery into a eager buzz of "can you do that's?" then after one of his remote blinds. I suppose it helped his blinds were always well above average that we were never questioned or dropped nor do I think he ever failed a blind. By his fourth Senior and through out his Masters he graduated to being sent from a heel position and actually turned out to be be a pretty good dog. In addition to his MH he actually ended up several Qualifying 3rd and 4th place ribbons as well as numerous Jams.

:)
 
#14 ·
Great story and very encouraging, thank you for sharing this. We were working with a young dog, he's doing Senior level work, but just won't leave from heel on the first send, put him in a front sit and he'll go every time. We'll keep working on it.
 
#20 · (Edited)
That is a great post, Gary..and .."until I figured out if I started his blinds on a ten yard remote it took the pressure off both of us.." was brilliant!

Hey, Ken....taking that step with B... , "stepping up" on the dog, to give them a push out there like on a long punch bird in a marking situation and it does give them a good push as you say.

Someone said..."I saw you step up on him"..not too long ago when sending on a mark. My dog was taking just a little longer than usual locating that long memory bird, so when he settled in on the location, .."good", Sebec/step.. I was ok with it but evidently it was not approved of. Whatever..this was in training, if it helps with success and confidence, it works for me. If I had to, I would step up in a trial as well. Knowing that standing still..is important.

Have never had a remote send in a HT or FT so this is a very interesting thread..and turns out to be helpful as well just in case.

However, all the training giving the dog tons of pictures to identify or having a nice dog that will scan..and lock for you, ..a remote send at test or trial seems to defeat the purpose of all that training and not using natural quality of a dog that scans and locks.

Tight turning dog..and holding a straight line on remote (whistle) sit is always a great thing. Remote send at the line is a different concept...judging...? Initial cast (send) ... Well, I guess not. Either way, the dog should take the cast and hold it for some distance, at least, to do well, strong not weak blinds. Not sure that I would ask that in a trial if judging. In fact, doubtful.

Gary's use of remote sends..more than likely saved that Lab from not living the great life he had, a really great read!

Hopefully, others having the issue might read this thread..rather than give up.

Sometimes RTF is a very good place :)

Judy
 
#22 ·
.....Hey, Ken....taking that step with B... , "stepping up" on the dog, to give them a push out there like on a long punch bird in a marking situation and it does give them a good push as you say.

Someone said..."I saw you step up on him"..not too long ago when sending on a mark. My dog was taking just a little longer than usual locating that long memory bird, so when he settled in on the location, .."good", Sebec/step.. I was ok with it but evidently it was not approved of. Whatever..this was in training, if it helps with success and confidence, it works for me. If I had to, I would step up in a trial as well. Knowing that standing still..is important......
Judy
Yes, it is. Funny, as handlers we step to the side all the time. Mike Lardy's "micro-step" as example. Seems a hundred years ago I was told not to "hug" the line. In case I needed to "step up"
 
#21 ·
No, Ken.

I was running Daisy at the time, so you know how long ago that was! LOL!!! But the guy from Georgia DID judge at LCRC. Hint, hint. I was supposed to judge with him but you guys got buried in entries so they split us up.

That particular test in NH finished up with a water quad and double water blind. Everyone that passed that weekend earned it!-pAUL
 
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