Conspicuous Holding Blinds Out in the Field [Archive] - RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF

: Conspicuous Holding Blinds Out in the Field



Dave_Verbyla
03-20-2020, 11:16 AM
Several years ago we had a Q up here in Alaska where the 2 judges where outside judges.
First series was a triple with 2-retired marks.

Both retired behind conspicuous holding blinds out in a fairly open field.

Is the rulebook requirement to "brush out" holding blinds only for AA stakes?

drunkenpoacher
03-20-2020, 11:37 AM
Sounds the last Master Hunt test I was at. There was concern about top few inches of the wingers being visible above the 4'x8' camo rectangles that "concealed" the guns in a field of low cover.

Page 30 of the rule book;
Retired Guns and throwers should be concealed by a blind that provides complete coverage, adequate space, and natural camouflage to conceal the distinctive shape of the blind and in no event shall gunners or throwers be instructed to lay down on the ground in layout blinds or like configurations for hiding purposes.

Not having been there, a triple with 2 retired in a Q, and in the 1st series, sounds like a lack of creativity by the judges. (sounds like they weren't really retired though)

Mark Littlejohn
03-20-2020, 01:59 PM
Agree with DP. The intentional use of "should" vs "shall" in the rulebook to allow judges (and clubs) some leeway. So while illegal, not very effective.

Ghillie blankets are being used pretty often here, in lieu of layout blinds. I watched a bunch of Open dogs fail to recognize and run way past a guy out in the middle of a field under a ghillie a few weekend ago.

Ken Barton
03-20-2020, 02:17 PM
Agree with DP. The intentional use of "should" vs "shall" in the rulebook to allow judges (and clubs) some leeway. So while illegal, not very effective.

Ghillie blankets are being used pretty often here, in lieu of layout blinds. I watched a bunch of Open dogs fail to recognize and run way past a guy out in the middle of a field under a ghillie a few weekend ago.


On the other hand I see quite a few dog’s recognizing ghillies including mine these days

Dave_Verbyla
03-21-2020, 08:18 AM
" in no event shall gunners or throwers be instructed to lay down on the ground in layout blinds or like configurations for hiding purposes."
Does this mean retiring via laying down in a Ghillie blanket is not allowed?
It has been conventional up here for a while....

captain2560
03-21-2020, 09:14 AM
most use a low profile Turkey chair that keeps you off the ground but reduces your profile in the field.

drunkenpoacher
03-21-2020, 10:31 AM
" in no event shall gunners or throwers be instructed to lay down on the ground in layout blinds or like configurations for hiding purposes."
Does this mean retiring via laying down in a Ghillie blanket is not allowed?
It has been conventional up here for a while....

Correct, that's why a low chair is used.
From what I understand there was an issue with a layout blind at an event. Someone got overheated or injured, prompting the rule. I do not know the details or if the info I heard is even accurate.

Dave_Verbyla
03-22-2020, 10:23 PM
Agree with DP. The intentional use of "should" vs "shall" in the rulebook to allow judges (and clubs) some leeway. So while illegal, not very effective.

So are conspicuous holding blinds out in sparse cover not allowed by the rulebook in the Q?

There was an excellent article in Retriever News Judges Corner (Jan 2018)
where the judges discuss after a rising sun, adding a holding blind in an AA stake in front of the sun-glint on a plastic wrapped hay bale
in the middle of the trial.

They also discuss the use of a holding blind to hide the thrower of single mark that will follow after
a derby dog completes a double mark.

In the Judges Corner the committee of judges explain both of these are violations of the rulebook.

drunkenpoacher
03-22-2020, 10:44 PM
So are conspicuous holding blinds out in sparse cover not allowed by the rulebook in the Q?

There is no requirement to have a retired gun in a Q or any other stake, so no.
It would be a poorly set up test but not an illegal one IMO.

Daren Galloway
03-22-2020, 10:52 PM
There is no requirement to have a retired gun in a Q or any other stake, so no.
It would be a poorly set up test but not an illegal one IMO.

so in no situation would a holding blind be less obvious than one brushed in?

drunkenpoacher
03-23-2020, 08:00 AM
so in no situation would a holding blind be less obvious than one brushed in?
I guess anything is possible but I can't imagine a holding blind blending in better without natural cover. Maybe in a field full of other holding blinds?
In the OP's described situation they weren't; "Both retired behind conspicuous holding blinds out in a fairly open field."
I don't see anything in violation of the rules. It just seems silly when everyone, dogs included, know where the "retired guns" are.