You're on the grounds and it's Friday..... [Archive] - RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF

: You're on the grounds and it's Friday.....



paul young
03-21-2020, 12:00 PM
How do you go about setting up your tests with your Co-Judge?- Paul

Steve Thornton
03-21-2020, 01:44 PM
Paul,

I'm a relatively new judge....however. We usually meet with the stakes chair and find out where we can set up. Look at the weather for the next morning for the forecast wind direction. Take a look around on foot or in the wheeler. Look at various set ups and consider the factors for each mark or blind. Discuss options for marks and blinds. Sometimes we range the options. We have sometimes come up with as many as 3 locations for land and water. I always flag with orange ribbons to be sure. And then there is always getting there the next morning and setting up again due to the wind not cooperating. Hope that was what you were looking for.

Steve

Steve Thornton
03-21-2020, 01:46 PM
PS. I always take a close look at the area for safety hazards.

paul young
03-22-2020, 05:02 PM
I've been waiting and hoping this thread would grow some legs, but apparently that is not
going to happen.

Here is my process for the day before judging:

-Be at the grounds on time and meet my Co-Judge and whoever the Club has sent. Ask them about abundance of workers and what we will have for birds, and the availability of decoys.
-Ask if if there are specific areas to be avoided or that should be used.
-Check the weather report for the thousandth time to check the predicted wind direction for the next couple of days.
-Get out compass and get oriented.
-Look at and choose areas to be used.
-discuss what test is to be first on Saturday with my Co-Judge.
-Define the line area and where the honor box is to be, if there is to be an honor. Look for hazards for both dogs and handlers. Make sure this area allows a clear look at the marks for the dogs, if they are doing what they should be. Consider if this is to be a walk-up. Is a diversion to be included in this test?
-Come to an agreement on suitably difficult marks, paying attention to what effect we think the sun and wind will have as the test progresses. Try VERY HARD to hide gun stations using existing natural features and augment those as necessary. Also try to throw as many as possible downwind, especially the 'best' mark.
-Walk the line to each fall area and survey the fall area, looking for severe hazards. Ask the committee member if they have any knowledge of such at that location.
-establish the order the marks will be thrown.
-Work with my Co-Judge to find a blind or blinds of suitable difficulty. Walk those out, as well.
-Define the parking and gallery area. Make sure there is enough parking.
-Work out a contingency plan in case conditions warrant changes.

Repeat this process for all of the tests required for the entire weekend. Pay attention to and respect what your Co-Judge is saying and discuss anything you don't understand, or disagree with. 2 heads are better than 1.

Dave_Verbyla
03-22-2020, 09:44 PM
I am not a judge, but hunt test chair.
Probably a bit different in Alaska (Fairbanks Club)
Judges meet at the grounds on Thursday for setup.
Outside judges have flown thousands of miles,
and any judges from Anchorage/Kenai have driven over 350 miles.
Judges are really appreciated as they have invested at least 4 days.

Typically outside judges will judge 2 stakes (2 days).
Friday we have MH, Senior
Saturday we have MH, Junior, Senior
Sunday we have owner/handler Q, Junior stakes.

Sometimes judges will use the same setup for Senior that they used the previous day at MH.
Or the same mark for Junior that was used in Senior or Master.

Ducks cost the club ~$25-30, all marks are ducks, usually one flyer in each stake.
Ducks are hung overnight in a screen tent, so they are fairly warm as dead birds.

Time management is less of an issue (it never gets dark, and even MH is typically less than 25 dogs).
Heat is typically not an issue.
Sometimes a moose will cause judges to move the setup, and we are fortunate we have never had a problem with moose.

Eric Johnson
03-23-2020, 05:37 PM
In addition to Paul's comments, I try to have a dog there to run the test as envisioned. I don't particularly care whether the dog is more advanced than the test stake. I want to see things like areas where the dog becomes invisible, items or issues that pull the dog away from the intent of the test. We discovered a goose nest like this once.

Dave_Verbyla
03-23-2020, 07:47 PM
Any tips regarding time management?

road kill
04-08-2020, 03:17 PM
I usually meet my co-judge the evening before the event.
It doesn't really take all that long to figure out what we want to do.
We often have a plan "B" in our back pocket in case weather changes.
We usually try to keep it fair to the dogs and not over think it.

Ted Shih
04-11-2020, 10:33 AM
How do you go about setting up your tests with your Co-Judge?- Paul

I don't judge Hunt Tests, but I am pretty certain that the process is similar.

1. Unless I am very familiar with the grounds, I want to be on the grounds no later than 8 am. I want to see how the morning light will affect the early dogs (who typically have the most difficult time)

2. Generally speaking, I try to respect the club. By that I mean, when it comes to where the stake is held, most clubs have certain areas that they have dedicated to that stake. I usually ask "Where would you like us to be?" If there are multiple choices, I like to drive around and see what's available. I'll ask my co-judge, what do you like.

3. I am typically the senior judge, so when I assess the grounds, I am thinking about

a) Wind, wind, wind
b) Direction of the sun
c) Traffic in/out of the test

Junior judges usually think about a/b, rarely about c. But, time management will make or break a test.

4. Once we pick a location, I typically like to spend 15-20 minutes alone just walking along the edge of the grounds, where it makes the most sense to place the line. I'll walk from spot to spot, until I find one that seems to me to offer the best options.

5. If I am paired with a junior judge, I will usually say: "Let's not pick marks yet. Let's go over there. We'll call this spot, A. What do you see?. Then I'll walk to another spot. Call this B. What do you see?
Do you prefer A or B? Then I'll walk to the third spot C. Do you prefer C or (the winner between A/B)? And so on. Once we've picked the winner, we'll start going into the field and constructing marks.

Ted

paul young
04-12-2020, 10:10 AM
That would work for Hunt Tests just as well, Ted.

I really admire your commitment to be on the grounds in the early morning hours to observe lighting conditions. Now that I'm retired, I'll try to do this. My co- judge and I recently had to adjust a test because of lighting problems. We had set up the test in late afternoon and underestimated the effect of the height of the sun on one of the marks at 8AM. -Paul

MooseGooser
04-14-2020, 05:14 PM
Do you and your co- judge discuss and define AOF's for each mark you construct.?

Ted Shih
04-15-2020, 12:57 PM
Do you and your co- judge discuss and define AOF's for each mark you construct.?

I don't.

1. I rarely set up tests where the birds are so tight that the AOF overlaps.
2. I think the work over the course of a test determines what an acceptable AOF is.

Ted

road kill
04-16-2020, 08:05 AM
I don't.

1. I rarely set up tests where the birds are so tight that the AOF overlaps.
2. I think the work over the course of a test determines what an acceptable AOF is.

Ted

Ted, have you judged an AKC HT?

Ted Shih
04-16-2020, 01:04 PM
Ted, have you judged an AKC HT?

No. I have not. I am familiar with both the FT and HT Rulebooks.

I know they both state that judges should decide upon the "hypothetical" boundaries of the AOF before the dogs begin to run.

I just don't know how you do that until a some dogs have run.

road kill
04-17-2020, 06:46 AM
No. I have not. I am familiar with both the FT and HT Rulebooks.

I know they both state that judges should decide upon the "hypothetical" boundaries of the AOF before the dogs begin to run.

I just don't know how you do that until a some dogs have run.

I was curious if you started out in FT or started in HT's.

To add......we usually determine the controlled break line as well.

Thanks,
Stan b

Ted Shih
04-17-2020, 10:44 AM
I was curious if you started out in FT or started in HT's.

To add......we usually determine the controlled break line as well.

Thanks,
Stan b


Stan

I started in HRC. I think I was member number 300 or so. Never judged in HRC or AKC HT

Ted

caryalsobrook
05-06-2020, 07:01 AM
I want to thank all that participate here as I read all these posts. I do think they help those that run HT's in that it gives an idea as to what judges think important.

I will be running at least one HT and maybe another, depending if I get in tonight. I am curious s to what you as judges would modify your tests in order to consider the guidlines for cov19. My first thought was the judge taking the duck from the handler. Personally, I never turned and looked at judge but held the duck behind me. My thoughts were that a bucket to put the ducks in would work nicely but a friend told me that was against AKC rules.

Anyway, it would be nice to hear your thoughts given you might be judging soon. :)

wecower842
07-24-2020, 02:59 AM
yeah its good for my retriever