Master Test vs Finished Test? What are the differences?
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Thread: Master Test vs Finished Test? What are the differences?

  1. #1
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    Default Master Test vs Finished Test? What are the differences?

    What are the parts of a master test that makes it so much harder than a finished test? What makes AKC so much different than UKC?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Keith S.'s Avatar
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    I haven't seen many master tests, but I have seen a few finished tests. I've seen master dogs struggle in finished with the duck calls and shooting at the line, it's a lot of excitement and if they don't train for it, it can be overwhelming. I think one of the struggles finished dogs have with master tests is you can't talk to your dog, dog creeps and doesn't mark near as well. Marks can be more technical, there's a walk up and the dog has to keep it together for 3 series vs 2.

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    IMO

    most where black where u wear camo

    you shoot at the line, where AKC has an attention getting devise and shot out in the field.

    you can push or pull your dog verbally at the line, where the AKC handler must remain silent after calling for the birds so the dog must turn and mark on their own.

    if you train for either or both neither is that difficult IMO

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Marks and blinds
    Marks and blinds

    Everything else is window dressing

    As noted the only significant rule differences are that the master stake runs 3 series and 3 blinds, including a double blind and the handler can't talk while birds are going down.

  7. #5
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    What are the differences in the marks and the blinds?

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    Senior Member Furball's Avatar
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    I've found the setups in Master to be much more technical (trained response) and judged tighter as well.
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  9. #7
    Senior Member JoeOverby's Avatar
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    Line manners are judged MUCH more strictly in HRC.
    Whether you can talk to your dog or not is irrelevant...most really good finished handlers don't talk while the marks are going down anyway. There is MUCH more going on at the line in finished...
    AKC tends to be more technical in mark and blind presentation.
    All in all the standard of work is the SAME...it is the 2 in the chair that determine how stringently it will be judged in either venue.
    FWIW, in the AKC your dog is judged on 5 things and scored on each...each carrying equal weight. In the HRC, the only thing that is judged is what the dog did wrong. There is no scoring system. I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers with this one but oh well...I've run a lot...of both.
    Joe Overby
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  10. #8
    Senior Member Joe Brakke's Avatar
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    Have ran both Test levels. Master has 3 series (2 day) vs. 2 series (1 day) in Finished. Finished marks can be in your grill so if you have a dog that has not seen a duck plopped 15 yards in front of them as a mark, and they still need to remain steady, then the Finished Test is harder for a breaking dog that has had ducks shot from the blind and further out . The handler needs to handle a safe gun, (no arm pit shooting) , shoot the marks, duck call from the line and honor may also shoot first bird down and calling. After all of this handler needs to place the gun down safe and action open or DQed. Then as a handler need your remember your last shot at the diversion. A lot of handler stuff going on at the line and dog needs to be steady and look out to the marks and not ack up at the gun when you chambler a round. Blinds can equal a Master at times but normally are Senior level. As mentioned, normally hot.

    Not to disrespect Finished but I use it as a primer for a young dog strating Master.
    Last edited by Joe Brakke; 09-30-2014 at 03:50 PM.
    Joe B.

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    HRC training level at finished stake (weekends not Grand) are diminished if you choose, continue to do triple and a blind cookie cutter-like. Once you get HRCH no additional qualification for the Grand. Talk to dog, can touch dog until signal to judges you are ready, birds can be left on ground until picked up at end of shoot.. Gun safety with " real shotguns" are of upmost importance, open and safe is the rule, silent throws, mostly from wingers, call from the line, shoot at the arc of the bird, much activity on line going on. Probably closest to a hunting scenario one can get under contrived conditions. This of course is the finished stake.

    AKC hunt tests, more advanced sometimes then HRC Finished, double blinds, quads, line more important in challenging the blind, control a little more overlooked on the line, poison birds, interrupted tests. Can talk quietly to honor dog, no talking to dog or touching dog when signaling you are ready, more precision , give each bird to judge don't drop on ground, wait for number to be called. Dogs must qualify each year for the Master National, with MH title, in principal master tests are the same as the Master National . judges are basically in control, no OK from field trial committee for set-ups unless some dangerous issue. Hunting wise, it "aint" no hunt, wooden guns, hip shooting, flyers shot out in the field, call from each station, etc. Of course there are exceptions to all the above HRC and AKC tests on occasions.

    I have not run HRC tests except for finished and don't judge HRC. I have run all three stakes in AKC and judge all stakes. Have titled All levels in AKC and have titled two HRCH, so not a big time expert in HRC.
    I think the bottom line HRC tests are more hunting/like and do require some hunting knowledge, upland and retriever. I think the AKC tests are more precision with training, but, are not very hunting/like in design.
    There are exceptions of course to the above.
    Earl Dillow

  12. #10
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Things that screw up a MH dog and MH handler going into HRCH finished
    1) No calls from field & very hidden Stations
    2) Hot Blinds, close to marks (if the dog makes the area, a quick handle in the area doesn't count against you & can save you when blinds are hot)
    3) Shot Gun & bird Juggling (I've shot up to 7 shells in Finished series and had to hold 6-7 birds while being safe with a shot-gun) shotgun has a very powerful effect on some dogs, I've seen several MH's (including my own, 1st test) become jumping, loud, sturgeons on a line enough to take out holding blinds; when unfamiliar with the excitement of the gun & in your face birds; You will be dropped for this

    Things that screw up a HRCH dog and Handler going to MH
    1) LIVE FLYER & calls from the Field (some HRCH test have Flyers, most don't) all the added noise & excitement while birds are in the air is a pretty big WOW
    2) No talking to Dog, can't stop a break when a dog gets a pretty big WOW
    3) Judges start the test & you have to Wait for a judge to release the dog
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 10-01-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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