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Thread: The other view of EX-IM Bank

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Storts View Post
    This could be completely off base but could Unknown Co. = Laudered money political campaign contributions? Seems to be a very good fit.
    Or money laundered for subversive operations overseas. Or they could just be many small loans lumped into an "other" category.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    Could this simply be smoke and mirrors by getting rid of this program and taking credit and leaving the real corporate welfare in place, like the farm bill?
    LOL. That is crazy talk. You would have a better shot at getting the votes to outsource defense to ISIS.

    My favorite description of the farm bill from a lobbyist was as a Christmas tree--everyone in congress gets to hang his or her favorite ornament on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    Obviously my statement that it was started to help Boeing vs. Airbus was not correct then, unless it was expanded for that purpose.

    I thought the Koch Bros were all in for the Libertarian Party this year?

    As for Crony Capitalism it could be that, it also could be supporting about 250,000 really well paying jobs in the U.S. in Boeing's case. Boeing doesn't actually get the money, these are loans or guarantees on loans to Boeing's customers to buy their goods. The customer foots the bill and the treasury takes a fee. When it comes to corporate welfare this is probably the least of the offender programs. Could this simply be smoke and mirrors by getting rid of this program and taking credit and leaving the real corporate welfare in place, like the farm bill?
    Unlike you, I am against ALL so called loans. ALL are Crony Capitalism. As I said, they are loans that nobody else except the government would make, and YES that goes for the farmers also. Tell me, what part of the Farm bill do you call "real corporate welfare", Not that I am a corporation but I do know a little about the farm bill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Unlike you, I am against ALL so called loans. ALL are Crony Capitalism. As I said, they are loans that nobody else except the government would make, and YES that goes for the farmers also. Tell me, what part of the Farm bill do you call "real corporate welfare", Not that I am a corporation but I do know a little about the farm bill.
    Ethanol subsidies for a start. The worst corporate welfare program of them all. Any price fixing or subsidy to plant any specific crop. Crop insurance of any kind is a way bigger subsidy than the ex-im and there is no profit to the treasury from it.

    For the record I have said this should be closed down. And they don't make loans, they guarantee loans for a fee, like PMI on your mortgage. How much revenue does the govt get off the 250000+ jobs Boeing is responsible for? The average of those salaries in six figures. Without corruption the ex-im would be a great use of govt money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    Ethanol subsidies for a start. The worst corporate welfare program of them all. Any price fixing or subsidy to plant any specific crop. Crop insurance of any kind is a way bigger subsidy than the ex-im and there is no profit to the treasury from it.

    For the record I have said this should be closed down. And they don't make loans, they guarantee loans for a fee, like PMI on your mortgage. How much revenue does the govt get off the 250000+ jobs Boeing is responsible for? The average of those salaries in six figures. Without corruption the ex-im would be a great use of govt money.
    Unlike you, I will say that ALL subsidies are bad. NONE are better than others. That goes for crop insurance, ethanol, loan guarantees and so call jobs protection. Not that Boeing would lose 250,000 jobs if subsidies were eliminated. but that is a DROP IN THE BUCKET of the number of jobs in farming that have gone south in the last 100 years. 40% of the workforce then and less than 2% today, resulting in a significant increase in the standard of living of all.

    If you think loan guarantees generate revenue for the government, then I guess you think Solyndra loan guarantees generated revenue for the government. Same for the loan guarantees for the Auto companies. You must just like the nipple that Boeing sucks. Are they such pansies that they can't compete? Corn was over $7.00/ bushel 3 years ago, Cotton over $2.00/lb. Soybeans over $15.00/bushel 2 years ago. Now Corn less than $4.00, Cotton less than $0.70, Soybeans less than $10.00. Of course farmers don't like it but they will adjust or find something else to do.

    I don't mean to pick on you, but I am tired of hearing that a business can't survive without government protection or a subsidy. One can't get a college education without a government student loan and that is with the government already paying 2/3rds of the total cost. One can't start a business without a SBA loan, or own a home without a 1st time home loan. I AM SICK OF HEARING that one can't do anything without government help and government control.

    It is about time that ALL realize THAT WE CAN.

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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    According to the Congressional Budget Office, they don't know if the EX-IM loans make money or lose tax payer money! The have two formulas for evaluating it, one shows a profit and the other a loss. That's what happens when you have a government so large and out of control, they don't know what's happening.
    https://www.cbo.gov/publication/45468
    “The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” U S Constitution
    This entire impeachment process is just going to be all about knocking down the most offensively stupid arguments from Trump supporters.









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    It is time for big government to go away and realize their only purpose at the federal level is to ensure the safety of the American Citizen and the protection of our great nation. The State Governors are responsible for the daily lives of his/her citizens that elected them. Feds need to get out of our lives and back to their jobs. Stop with the loans, stop with the subsidies, stop with the control of the schools, highways and everything else they have their hands in. Stop artificially inflating the stock market and stop trying to control peoples property with the EPA. Done with my rant for the day. In case you haven't noticed I hate big government putting their nose into our lives.
    Fishing, hunting, golfing, traveling and relaxing is life's reward after meeting your goals and retiring.

  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Unlike you, I will say that ALL subsidies are bad. NONE are better than others. That goes for crop insurance, ethanol, loan guarantees and so call jobs protection. Not that Boeing would lose 250,000 jobs if subsidies were eliminated. but that is a DROP IN THE BUCKET of the number of jobs in farming that have gone south in the last 100 years. 40% of the workforce then and less than 2% today, resulting in a significant increase in the standard of living of all.

    If you think loan guarantees generate revenue for the government, then I guess you think Solyndra loan guarantees generated revenue for the government. Same for the loan guarantees for the Auto companies. You must just like the nipple that Boeing sucks. Are they such pansies that they can't compete? Corn was over $7.00/ bushel 3 years ago, Cotton over $2.00/lb. Soybeans over $15.00/bushel 2 years ago. Now Corn less than $4.00, Cotton less than $0.70, Soybeans less than $10.00. Of course farmers don't like it but they will adjust or find something else to do.

    I don't mean to pick on you, but I am tired of hearing that a business can't survive without government protection or a subsidy. One can't get a college education without a government student loan and that is with the government already paying 2/3rds of the total cost. One can't start a business without a SBA loan, or own a home without a 1st time home loan. I AM SICK OF HEARING that one can't do anything without government help and government control.

    It is about time that ALL realize THAT WE CAN.
    I addressed Solyndra earlier, that was not a loan guarantee, it was a gov't handout that never got repaid. I agree within our shores a business should be able to compete without any subsidies. However, when you look at Boeing and Cat and others that are competing in the WORLD market their competitors, Airbus, Komatsu, many Chinese companies etc are getting subsidies from their gov't. How can a Boeing compete against Airbus on a deal with a Chinese airline if the EU is subsidizing Airbus for 20% of their workforce or giving them money for capital investment if the US gov't does nothing? The world market is not free enterprise or capitalist are we as a gov't going to protect our business and jobs here? The other option is to ban any of those businesses from doing business here in the U.S., but that is also a form of subsidy or protection are you against that?

    Right now the sale of A320s and 737s to China (largest purchaser of new aircraft in the world right now) is approx 50/50. Take away this financing arm and that will go to 80/20 in favor of the A320. For me it doesn't matter, I work on both aircraft but times will get pretty tough in the Seattle area and other when they shut down a 737 line.

    No worries on picking on me, I can take it I'm not even all that opposed to your side of things I'm just trying to point out its not that simple on a global scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaBayDog View Post
    I addressed Solyndra earlier, that was not a loan guarantee, it was a gov't handout that never got repaid. I agree within our shores a business should be able to compete without any subsidies. However, when you look at Boeing and Cat and others that are competing in the WORLD market their competitors, Airbus, Komatsu, many Chinese companies etc are getting subsidies from their gov't. How can a Boeing compete against Airbus on a deal with a Chinese airline if the EU is subsidizing Airbus for 20% of their workforce or giving them money for capital investment if the US gov't does nothing? The world market is not free enterprise or capitalist are we as a gov't going to protect our business and jobs here? The other option is to ban any of those businesses from doing business here in the U.S., but that is also a form of subsidy or protection are you against that?

    Right now the sale of A320s and 737s to China (largest purchaser of new aircraft in the world right now) is approx 50/50. Take away this financing arm and that will go to 80/20 in favor of the A320. For me it doesn't matter, I work on both aircraft but times will get pretty tough in the Seattle area and other when they shut down a 737 line.

    No worries on picking on me, I can take it I'm not even all that opposed to your side of things I'm just trying to point out its not that simple on a global scale.
    Sorry IowaBayDog, you spout the same old socialist propaganda. A country lowers its own standard of living with subsidies, guaranteed loans and tariffs. A country that excersizes free trade will raise their standard of living. I had this discussion with Sw who chose to call the Law of Comparative Advantage, a theory(not). One only need understand it, to know that what you say is pure propaganda,


    Again for the last time ALL TARIFFS, LOAN GUARANTEES, SUBSIDIES OF ANY KIND ONLY LOWER THE STANDARD OF LIVING OF ALL.

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Sorry IowaBayDog, you spout the same old socialist propaganda. A country lowers its own standard of living with subsidies, guaranteed loans and tariffs. A country that excersizes free trade will raise their standard of living. I had this discussion with Sw who chose to call the Law of Comparative Advantage, a theory(not). One only need understand it, to know that what you say is pure propaganda,


    Again for the last time ALL TARIFFS, LOAN GUARANTEES, SUBSIDIES OF ANY KIND ONLY LOWER THE STANDARD OF LIVING OF ALL.
    So you believe that US Companies should have to compete against foreign companies that receive not only subsidies but some are even gov't owned without any help from the U.S. Govt. And that those subsidized foreign companies should be able to freely compete in the U.S. marked without penalty???????

    Do you not believe those foreign companies are subsidized?

    You are very wrong on one very important concept. A "country" cannot exercise free trade, unless it is trading with itself. A group or set of countries can exercise trade but it is only free trade if ALL PARTICIPANTS play by the same rules. Its not free trade if those you are trading with have subsidies, so you either have to impose tariffs to level the field or force them to play by your rules. Imposing rules on your own country that are not followed by others is putting your businesses at a distinct dis-advantage.

    Please show me how the economics of trading with China works out when we give our companies no help, impose no tariffs on the Chinese, and allow them to do any gov't intervention they want? How does that raise our standard of living? That is what we essentially have been doing the last 20+years and what is the ratio of US made products to Chinese on the shelves today?

    Comparative Advantage applies only to the opportunity cost and does not deal with unfair trade practices. By not supporting US Companies you essentially give every other country willing to subsidize a comparative advantage to produce any good unless we have some natural resource that no one else does.

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