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Thread: Philosophical Question ...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default Philosophical Question ...

    This is not exactly a political question, but it becomes involved with politics ...

    On another thread, Pete wrote:
    You must realize that men routinely have sex with young boys and beat their wives. This equates to our culture as apple pie ,hot dogs and mom . They don't believe they are pedophiles,,they believe they are teaching young boys to become men,, and they believe woman are only meant for reproductive purposes NOT sex which is why vaginal mutilation is so popular. Their sick MFer's . We need to get out of there and let those culturally perverted basturds kill each other instead of our men.
    The core of our country ... the very first amendment to the Constitution ... is about freedom of religion. The first settlers most often came to the New World exactly for that freedom.

    Pedophilia and subservience of women is integral to the religion of Islam; though not at all to Jewish or Christian beliefs. In varied discussions (not just this forum), it is denied that our country is based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. However, when it comes to these topics AND also religious tolerance, we definitely are basing our opinion on Judeo-Christian principles, with which Islam VERY much disagrees. (In fact, Islam doesn't believe in freedom of religion either.)

    While one could argue that women were not always given equal standing to men in our country, both Jesus and the Old Testament often held up women as important to the fabric of Christianity and Judaism.

    So, are we really a culture based on Judeo-Christian beliefs? I think we are.

    At what point are we morally obligated (even if not practicing Christians or Jews) to place some limitations on freedom of religion?
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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    This is not exactly a political question, but it becomes involved with politics ...

    On another thread, Pete wrote:


    The core of our country ... the very first amendment to the Constitution ... is about freedom of religion. The first settlers most often came to the New World exactly for that freedom.

    Pedophilia and subservience of women is integral to the religion of Islam; though not at all to Jewish or Christian beliefs. In varied discussions (not just this forum), it is denied that our country is based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. However, when it comes to these topics AND also religious tolerance, we definitely are basing our opinion on Judeo-Christian principles, with which Islam VERY much disagrees. (In fact, Islam doesn't believe in freedom of religion either.)

    While one could argue that women were not always given equal standing to men in our country, both Jesus and the Old Testament often held up women as important to the fabric of Christianity and Judaism.

    So, are we really a culture based on Judeo-Christian beliefs? I think we are.

    At what point are we morally obligated (even if not practicing Christians or Jews) to place some limitations on freedom of religion?

    let me answer you question(s) separately

    1. I used to think so, but our culture has virtually come apart in the last couple of decades, not sure what event(s) led the charge but the erosion is very evident from my standpoint, also I am not sure what can be done to stop it..But I do feel that the way our society treats religious holidays shows how far we have fallen. We have commercialized Christmas and Easter to the point that most of the younger generation only thinks about what gifts they are going to get



    2. unfortunately I would have to argue Yes...if I am allowed to practice observing my religion of choice, then I have to allow those that choose not to observe any religion the same freedom..What chafes my rear is that the Atheist/Agnostic segment of the population seems to scream the loudest and seem bent on pushing religion back to the back rooms and void of any public display..As they say its hard to legislate morality...but when cultures use their deviant behavior under the cloak of religious freedom, then they have to be stopped
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    let me answer you question(s) separately

    1. I used to think so, but our culture has virtually come apart in the last couple of decades, not sure what event(s) led the charge but the erosion is very evident from my standpoint, also I am not sure what can be done to stop it..But I do feel that the way our society treats religious holidays shows how far we have fallen. We have commercialized Christmas and Easter to the point that most of the younger generation only thinks about what gifts they are going to

    But what I'm talking about is that our values about religious freedom and respect for women are basically rooted in Judeo-Christian values. Progressive liberals have buried that fact, but it's still true. I don't know a whole lot about Buddhism, etc., but I don't think that those religions were highly represented or impactful among the original colonists of the US.

    Indeed, we have generally aided the demise of those early roots by commercializing Christmas so that the original significance is lost. That then aids in the goal of discounting the degree to which our values are based on those religious values, and thereby replacing that with the "religion" of secular liberalism.

    The Founders were much closer in time to why the original colonists came to the New World. They more fully appreciated how important the freedoms of the 1st were to preventing tyranny that they had fought against.

    Even the concept of separation of church and state are rooted in Jesus' admonition: (paraphrasing) render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's; and to God that which is God's.


    2. unfortunately I would have to argue Yes...if I am allowed to practice observing my religion of choice, then I have to allow those that choose not to observe any religion the same freedom..What chafes my rear is that the Atheist/Agnostic segment of the population seems to scream the loudest and seem bent on pushing religion back to the back rooms and void of any public display..As they say its hard to legislate morality...but when cultures use their deviant behavior under the cloak of religious freedom, then they have to be stopped
    I would agree that the denying that religion exists (regardless of which religion) is very abrasive. A religious person can be just as offended by prevention of individual prayer by a student in school, as an atheist is offended by a teacher leading prayer for an entire class.

    My question is more addressed to our separation of church and state, which Judeo-Christian values have continued to embrace. Even Israel does so, (by granting citizenship and elective political office to Arabs who are Muslim) a country unquestionably Jewish. Islam differs in that there is no such separation of church and state.

    An observant Muslim might feel very justified for an honor killing. That individual might feel that if a court of law does not agree, his freedom of religion is being denied? Can we overcome that to allow Muslims to assimilate into our western societies?

    It seems very clear to you and I that religious freedom stops where it interferes with the well-being of another person, especially so when it results in physical harm to life and limb of that other person. That, however, is not part of theocracies.
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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Faith is a very positive attribute!

    It isnt affected by outside forces.

    How strong is yours?
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Freedom of religion ... Illinois will allow a burqa in a driver's license photograph. Certainly not real helpful for ID purposes.
    (Reported in Conservative Tribune)

    Now, in the name of political correctness, one of our states wants to do away with this protection by allowing religious garments in drivers license photos. This can include headdresses or scarves — material that would conceal part of the head or face that would ordinarily not be allowed under law.
    While most religious gear would still leave the ability to identify the subject at some level, the most concealing of Muslim religious garb for females — the burqa — would leave the entire head and face covered.
    “While hats or head coverings are generally prohibited from being worn in photographs used on Illinois drivers licenses and identification cards, customers may be photographed while wearing established religious head coverings,” reads a flier distributed to state employees at the Illinois Department of Motor Vehicles. “Photographs increase public safety.”
    Illinois DMV Deputy Press Secretary Henry Haupt confirmed to reporters that this would include the burqa and veil, as well as other religious coverings worn by Muslims and Sikhs.
    “What we’re doing was always allowed… but what we want to ensure is that the public’s aware of them because we were told that some individuals were unaware that they could have their photo taken for the drivers [sic] license wearing them [religious head coverings],” Haupt said.
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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Faith is a very positive attribute!

    It isnt affected by outside forces.

    How strong is yours?
    One of the thing I dislike is when someone questions the strength of one's FAITH...

    To each their own...IMO its not going to get you to where you want to go any sooner, nor does it make someone more religious or closer to God than anyone else..You can have FAITH and not attend a day in church, You can attend church 52 weekends a year and it doesn't make one any holier than someone who attends occasionally...

    IMO Faith is a lot like Patriotism, you either are or you're not...but not going to get into a urinating match as to who has more FAITH or who is more PATRIOTIC..

    Your Faith is between you and your God, as is mine...there is no scale or measurement
    Executor of the Alanson C Brown III - Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    Senior Member Richard Reese's Avatar
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    If the story of the burqa is true, how exactly is the drivers license used for identification. There is no way of telling who is driving the car. The driver is not able to have full view of the road and is endangering other drivers and pedestrians. This goes way beyond any hate for muslims or religion. This has safety problems with people driving with these impairment devices on. How many people are going to have to die in the future before the PC crowd starts to get their head out of their AZZ.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Freedom of religion ... Illinois will allow a burqa in a driver's license photograph. Certainly not real helpful for ID purposes.
    (Reported in Conservative Tribune)


    This doesn't pass the smell test Gerry

  11. #9
    Senior Member nogie1717's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    This is not exactly a political question, but it becomes involved with politics ...

    On another thread, Pete wrote:

    The core of our country ... the very first amendment to the Constitution ... is about freedom of religion. The first settlers most often came to the New World exactly for that freedom.

    Pedophilia and subservience of women is integral to the religion of Islam; though not at all to Jewish or Christian beliefs. In varied discussions (not just this forum), it is denied that our country is based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. However, when it comes to these topics AND also religious tolerance, we definitely are basing our opinion on Judeo-Christian principles, with which Islam VERY much disagrees. (In fact, Islam doesn't believe in freedom of religion either.)

    While one could argue that women were not always given equal standing to men in our country, both Jesus and the Old Testament often held up women as important to the fabric of Christianity and Judaism.

    So, are we really a culture based on Judeo-Christian beliefs? I think we are.

    At what point are we morally obligated (even if not practicing Christians or Jews) to place some limitations on freedom of religion?
    1. Pedophilia integral to Islam - How so (this is an honest question)? Pedophilia was very common in Catholicism, but I don't know if I'd say it was integral to their beliefs.
    2. A person can find places in the Bible where women were shown to be important, but the whole has them as secondary. Remember, women were made for men, not the other way around. It was from Adam that Eve was made. It was a woman that caused the fall of mankind. It is woman who will submit to her husband like a man unto God.

    I think it's important to recognize that the culture of the United States of America has deep, deep roots in the Judeo-Christian tradition of the West. It is equally important to recognize the the Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, is not a Judeo-Christian document. Rather, it is based on English Common Law and Renaissance thinkers, such as Locke, Rousseau, Hume, Mill, etc. We have a Christian culture within a secular foundation of law.

    It is a violation of the Constitution to place limitations on religious practice, but if that practice violates law then the limit is acceptable. Creating laws that are specifically designed to limit someone else's religious freedom is a big no no. Ask the City of Hialeah. Florida, I believe.

    As far as the ID thing, please read: http://m.snopes.com/sharia-compliant...vers-licenses/
    Last edited by nogie1717; 08-26-2015 at 08:49 AM. Reason: Add link
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    Senior Member swliszka's Avatar
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    Bon #6 and nogie1717 #9 XXX2

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