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Thread: A question to experienced field trial judge's

  1. #1
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    Default A question to experienced field trial judge's

    If in a trial a Dog on a blind starts to lose momentum, the handler yells back without stopping the Dog first, would you drop the dog for the handler using a training technique at a trial.
    Brooks Gibson

    Bad things happen when you ask common dogs to do uncommon things.

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    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain2560 View Post
    If in a trial a Dog on a blind starts to lose momentum, the handler yells back without stopping the Dog first, would you drop the dog for the handler using a training technique at a trial.
    No language in Field Trial Rules and Standard Procedures for Retriever mentions penalties for the use of “training techniques” (whatever that means). This is nothing more than a verbal cast which carries no penalty.

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    I was. I was told it was intimidation.

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    This is my thought, but i have talked to people who believe in no training techniques are to be used at a trial. A different scenario would be a dog that doesn't go when sent on a mark, the handler steps forward, says heel, then sends again and dog goes.
    Brooks Gibson

    Bad things happen when you ask common dogs to do uncommon things.

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    Or a dog which is losing control on a blind, or handling on a mark, a whistle sit and then when dog is sitting, another whistle sit is blown. In training i will do this and nick after the second sit whistle.
    Brooks Gibson

    Bad things happen when you ask common dogs to do uncommon things.

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    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gander Club View Post
    I was. I was told it was intimidation.
    Try to find the word intimidation in the rules, you can’t because it does not exist. There is language pertaining to the use of a threatening gesture in the context of steadiness but a verbal cast is not threatening or a gesture.

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    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain2560 View Post
    This is my thought, but i have talked to people who believe in no training techniques are to be used at a trial. A different scenario would be a dog that doesn't go when sent on a mark, the handler steps forward, says heel, then sends again and dog goes.
    How could you know what someone’s training techniques are and if you know what makes them illegal. Sit is a training technique so is back. When a dog does not go on a mark anything after that is irrelevant as that is clearly covered by the rules.

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    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain2560 View Post
    Or a dog which is losing control on a blind, or handling on a mark, a whistle sit and then when dog is sitting, another whistle sit is blown. In training i will do this and nick after the second sit whistle.
    Since I do not train that way how would I know your training techniques? I count double and triple whistles as whistle refusals, why else the would handler blow the second or third whistle?

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    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain2560 View Post
    If in a trial a Dog on a blind starts to lose momentum, the handler yells back without stopping the Dog first, would you drop the dog for the handler using a training technique at a trial.

    Brooks

    About ten years ago (?), the RAC proposed an amendment to the Rules which would require elimination for such conduct. The theory was that such conduct constituted "forcing."

    I opposed it. Obviously, a lot of other people did, too. I don't remember if it ever came to a vote.

    To me, it was too sweeping a measure and did not pay enough attention to circumstances. For example, I might yell "back" to a dog scalloping in water to tighten its cast. That would have nothing to do with forcing. On the other hand, if the dog was breaking down as it approached the water and the handler yelled "back" I would be far less forgiving as a judge

    As a judge - generally speaking - I would note on my sheet what happened as follows:

    "." to indicate something happened
    "P/C?" - to remind me that there was a cast and perhaps a cast to cover a pending pop

    Ted
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    I agree with you Ted and Ed, just putting the question out there to get input from experienced people. Dog's have been dropped for these things, just letting people think about these behaviors.
    Brooks Gibson

    Bad things happen when you ask common dogs to do uncommon things.

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