Diversion birds or poison birds?
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Thread: Diversion birds or poison birds?

  1. #1
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    Default Diversion birds or poison birds?

    This past weekend in a hunt test, I observed a double thrown. The dog picked up the go bird and after getting back to the line a 20-25 yard bird was thrown. the handlers were told this was a diversion bird and instructed to pick up the memory bird. I observed dogs being handled to the memory bird as if it were a blind and judged as a mark. Is this good test?

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    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nissen View Post
    This past weekend in a hunt test, I observed a double thrown. The dog picked up the go bird and after getting back to the line a 20-25 yard bird was thrown. the handlers were told this was a diversion bird and instructed to pick up the memory bird. I observed dogs being handled to the memory bird as if it were a blind and judged as a mark. Is this good test?




    NO! And I am assuming this was a master test? Did they pick up the (diversion/poison bird) after picking up the memory bird? If so it was a mark also and judges cannot tell you what order to pick up marks. If that bird was picked up then sent for memory bird it would be a diversion bird and a legit test if not it is a poison bird and a bad test.I really wouldn't mind the test but to throw out a bird that causes you to handle but still be judged as a mark aint right.

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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Just another thing to add to the list of 'stupid things to train for'.
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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    Moderator Renee P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nissen View Post
    This past weekend in a hunt test, I observed a double thrown. The dog picked up the go bird and after getting back to the line a 20-25 yard bird was thrown. the handlers were told this was a diversion bird and instructed to pick up the memory bird. I observed dogs being handled to the memory bird as if it were a blind and judged as a mark. Is this good test?
    In an AKC retriever hunting test, a diversion bird is to be thrown while the dog is on the way back from a retrieve, and it is to be thrown in front of the dog. If the dog is at the line and another bird is thrown as you describe, that sounds like a 3rd mark. In either case the handler is free to choose to order of retrieves.

    P. 27-28: "Diversion birds may appear on a blind retrieve either after the dog has been sent for, or when a dog is returning from the blind retrieve; however, diversion birds shall only appear on marks when the dog is returning from a retrieve.

    Diversion birds shall always be initiated in front of the working dog. "

    P. 24: "On marked retrieves, the order in which birds are to be retrieved shall not be specified by the Judges: the handler is free to select the order in which he directs his dog to retrieve the birds provided that such selection shall be accomplished quietly and promptly."

    Edit: I don't see anything in the rules about the order of pickup with diversion birds so presumably the order can be specified by the judges.
    Last edited by Renee P.; 10-01-2018 at 01:00 PM.

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    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Just another thing to add to the list of 'stupid things to train for'.




    Not really, it could happen when hunting. For example you shoot two birds and the first is crippled. As dog deliveres the go bird you drop another stone dead and you want the cripple picked up before it gets away. The thing is as with many HT scenerios when hunting your not being judged. Dont know how this test really worked out but as Wayne described it I think it is a bad test. All depends on how it was judged.

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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    I wonder if this was HRC? I know in HRC the judges can dictate order at finished level... not sure if they can dictate order in conjunction with 'diversion' birds as I am relatively new to that 'hunt test genre'.

    I agree Steve, it could happen in hunting.
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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    Senior Member Delta Whitetail's Avatar
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    It was an AKC Master Test. 3rd series. My trainer sent out a text after the third and I quote " JUST a double with a poison bird diversion..........A double from hell........" Doesn't seem like the judges dinged anyone for a handle in the 3rd for pulling the dog off the diversion/poison bird. Happy to get a pass

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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    If they didn't ding the dogs for handling to the mark. Then it was more or less a PB blind? Can an AKC judge say at the handler's meeting, we won't ding you for handling on the memory mark, but we want to see if your dog will handle off the diversion? Or do they just 'let the ball roll' and see where it bounces when it hits the pothole?
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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    Senior Member Delta Whitetail's Avatar
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    Tobias, that I cannot answer as I was not at the test. I just quoted what he sent out on the group text after the 3rd series.

  12. #10
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    The diversion was thrown in front of the dog as it was returning from the go bird. The dogs did NOT come back to the line to watch the diversion being thrown except for the first dog because of a miscommunication with the birdboy. He didn’t throw the diversion on the return so the judges instructed him to just throw it while the dog was on line and then they judged accordingly. After the initial mix-up on the very first dog it all went smooth. It was an objectively fair and LEGAL test. Y’all can decide if it was subjectively “good” or not. But actually being there to see it would help instead of casting judgement Monday morning on the internet.

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