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Derby Question?

10K views 33 replies 18 participants last post by  jforqueran 
#1 ·
I have a 9 month old BLF that I have been training , she is doing outstanding according to a few different people that has seen her train. question is, how does some one learn how to run a Derby? or for that matter any trials? Is there any resources out there ? I train 99% of the time alone.
thanks for any information .
 
#5 · (Edited)
Is there a retriever club near you? Look on Entry Express for the retriever field trials closest to your location and contact the event secretary or chair person. They may be able to refer you to a training group in your area.
Your dog has to be steady, a good marker and comfortable with doubles that may be pretty tight.
A typical derby will be four series of land and water doubles, all marks. There will be a shot flier, probably in the first series. It will be very tempting for the young dogs to return to the flier when sent for the second bird, especially if they have never seen one before.
The marks may be quite long with compounding factors to influence the dogs, wind, cover changes, obstacles, angled entries, terrain, etc.
I don't think it is a rule but probably no retired guns. It is likely however that cover and terrain will be used to cause the dog to lose sight of the gun in route.
I would be good to train with a group at least once or twice a week if possible. The level of excitement is always elevated with more dogs and people around and young dogs need to get used to that. Lots of other advantages too, like throwers helping young dogs stick to the fall area.
I only had a chance to run a couple derbies last year. Wish I had been able to enter more, they are a lot of fun.
 
#11 ·
Is there a retriever club near you? Look on Entry Express for the retriever field trials closest to your location and contact the event secretary or chair person. They may be able to refer you to a training group in your area.
Your dog has to be steady, a good marker and comfortable with doubles that may be pretty tight.
A typical derby will be four series of land and water doubles, all marks. There will be a shot flier, probably in the first series. It will be very tempting for the young dogs to return to the flier when sent for the second bird, especially if they have never seen one before.
The marks may be quite long with compounding factors to influence the dogs, wind, cover changes, obstacles, angled entries, terrain, etc.
I don't think it is a rule but probably no retired guns. It is likely however that cover and terrain will be used to cause the dog to lose sight of the gun in route.
I would be good to train with a group at least once or twice a week if possible. The level of excitement is always elevated with more dogs and people around and young dogs need to get used to that. Lots of other advantages too, like throwers helping young dogs stick to the fall area.
I only had a chance to run a couple derbies last year. Wish I had been able to enter more, they are a lot of fun.
You might want to familiarize yourself with the rulebook, before you go giving advice to others.

In spite of the fact that you bolded the word STEADY, Your dog does not have to be steady in a derby. Obviously it's a good practice but I have seen many derbies, where a dog that wasn't steady did quite well.
Additionally there is nothing in the rulebook precluding retired guns. Admittedly, they at one time were quite rare but are becoming ever more common
 
#13 ·
Far from an expert, in fact about a year ago I was in your shoes. I'd run HT but had a dog that I thought could run derbies. She did okay and finished one derby and was a toenail away from another.
My NOOB takeaways are this: it's a lot to put on a young dog. 4 series of exciting marks in a high intensity atmosphere is a lot. It can create a lot of problems at the line. Mine got pretty high.
We have spent a lot of time on line manners in the last few month. She was much, much better in her last derby. She didn't break or anything, but why create a lifetime of problems for a few points.

There are a lot of good trainers in that part of NC. Amateur and pro. Look on entry express and find a FT. Go meet folks and watch a derby.

Good derby marks will demonstrate if your dog has learned to fight factors to get to a mark. Good derby judges won't mash a young dog if they mark well.
 
#15 ·
My NOOB takeaways are this: it's a lot to put on a young dog. 4 series of exciting marks in a high intensity atmosphere is a lot. It can create a lot of problems at the line. Mine got pretty high.
We have spent a lot of time on line manners in the last few month. She was much, much better in her last derby. She didn't break or anything, but why create a lifetime of problems for a few points.
Excellent summary if I'm allowed to say so.
 
#16 ·
Unless the people who are telling you that your dog is doing great work are experienced and successful field trialers, you are being led down a primrose path. It's super competitive and the dogs and handlers that you will be against are more than likely very experienced. If your friends are trialers, they will have a training group already. Go watch a couple before you enter.
 
#22 ·
Just curious Tigerfan since you have been to 100s of field trials how would you judge an "unsteady" ( in my understanding unsteady = break or controlled break) dog in derby ? Q? AA stakes?
 
#23 ·
I know Andera, I may have met Chris, they train on Saturdays. But like I said I don’t want to intrude since they have an established group. I generally work my pup in the evenings,
i was wondering how to learn about Derby’s. Thanks again for all the information
 
#25 ·
Go watch one. The summer FT season has plenty of Derby/ Quals listed on entryexpress. Sit and watch both the dogs and the handlers. You will see good ones, bad ones , lucky ones and unlucky ones. If you stay for all 4 series you will hopefully see both the natural and the technical side of Derbies and young dog training.
Have fun!
Tim
 
#26 ·
Read the rule book for sure, but it will not prepare you or give you enough info on what to train on to be competitive in a derby. The rules emphasize natural abilities over those acquired through training, but it is extremely rare in the southeast to see a set of derby marks that don’t require more trained ability than natural.

Very tight concept marks are the norm. I tell people that if your dog can’t do a long retired mark with a very tight line past a live flyer on land and do a very demanding two down the shore double on water, your not ready for what the derby has become.

With that said. If your dog is steady, delivers to hand, will go went sent for a bird they may not remember well, and is honest on cheaty water marks, just go sign up and run a couple. With these skills, it’s unlikely your dog will develop bad habits and you may find that judge who is generous with callbacks as the rule book encourages. You will learn more by doing than watching.
 
#30 ·
In another post, I put the link for the Rule Book. You can download it to your phone for reference.

As for tests, I suggest you contact the Retriever News. You can pay them - I don't know the cost - for the National Derby Championship Issues for the past three years and get a feel for derby tests
 
#33 ·
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I think you should just go watch one. You' will get the idea pretty quickly. Then you will know what is expected from the dogs to complete a Derby.</p>
 
#34 ·
Things I have learned from the few derbies that we have run.

The most obvious one being that you had better have a dog that can mark above average. The second being, you had better have a dog that can perform consistently at the trained concepts that you will encounter at the derby! I don't necessarily agree with the trained concepts, but if you want to be competitive your dog better be comfortable doing them.
 
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