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Thread: Wingan - Jay Carlisle

  1. #1
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Default Wingan - Jay Carlisle

    Last evening while searching through archived news there was a story about Dave Elliot.

    Elliot disposed of the Wingan Kennels when he joined the K9 Corps in 1942 and at the time of his discharge in 1945 had attained the rank of sergeant. After leaving the military he purchased land on Long Island for a kennel operation. At the same time Elliot was offered a position at the new Kingswere Kennel facility in Winona, MN.

    After some thought Elliot leased his new property enabling him to take the Kingswere job. He wasn't unknown to Kingswere having run handled Golden Kid, owned by Kingswere. who won the American Chesapeake club’s spring trial. Novice event. At the Summit Bridge Delaware, March 30. Elliot had also handled Hi-Tail of Wyandote to an open win.
    Last edited by Richard Halstead; 12-30-2007 at 01:55 PM.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Richard-

    There really isn't a way to send you a PM?!?

    Would you ever loan any of your books or articles on Dave Elliot, Carlisle, etc? I would pay postage both ways.

    I'm not an ebay person, but am going to start asking around at a couple bookstores who may be willing to help me.

    Wish this could have been a PM.

    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you can’t take it back…"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
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    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Miriam,

    Most of what I have been doing is searching newspaperarchive.com there are about 85 milliom newspapers archived. I just searched "retriever trial" and had thousands of hits. You can search any topic, but you have to use quotes to search the entire term. Some topics I have searched were King Buck, various trainers, dogs, and Idaho silver mines.

    From these archives and Google I find muchof the information. A search of used books turned up Sailing the Great Southbay had some information on the mansions of Long Island. There were more costly estates on thenorth side of Long Island which history has dubbed the Gold Coast.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Well, it would get me off RTF!

    Can you tell me though (I know it's been posted) if there is an autobiography of Dave Elliot & the title? Ideally it takes the reader from his childhood to his beginnings training retrievers.

    Thanks!

    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you can’t take it back…"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
    Brassfire's Brass in Pocket JH, WCX ** (4 Master passes)
    Brassfire's New England Patriot (New Pup!!!)

  7. #5
    Senior Member Richard Halstead's Avatar
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    Ask junbe he has so many books and so little time.
    cave canem...beware of the dog
    Richard Halstead (halst001 at yahoo.com)

    http://www.browndogmafia.com/finalists.html

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    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Thanks Richard & (again-wish this was a PM) I really enjoy your posts. They bring the dogs & people to life!

    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you can’t take it back…"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
    Brassfire's Brass in Pocket JH, WCX ** (4 Master passes)
    Brassfire's New England Patriot (New Pup!!!)

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    Miriam,
    I have a signed copy of Dave Elliot's "Training Gun Dogs To Retrieve" I'll loan you.

    Tim
    ps you cannot accept anymore PMs
    Last edited by Tim Carrion; 12-30-2007 at 04:05 PM.
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  10. #8
    Senior Member junbe's Avatar
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    Miriam

    Here is a little information that I have found on David D. Elliot. First I am aware of two publications that he authored. The first “The Labrador Retriever” published in 1936 by Wingan Kennels. This is a very rare book and I only know of eight copies that retriever people have told me they possess. The one I have was given to Mr. Nash Buckingham by David D. Elliot. The other book is “Training Gun Dogs to Retrieve” published in 1952. There are many copies of this book available.

    Here is a short history of what I found about Mr. Elliot’s career. He grew up outside of Edinburg Scotland. As a youth he attended sheep dog trials and there he first learned that dogs could respond to hand signals—he later incorporated this into his retriever training. His grandfather had Labradors that he hunted in the moors. In 1930’s he began training shooting dogs and became a gamekeeper. At the Labrador Retriever Club, Jan 22, 1932, he placed dogs in this English trial. At the time J. Carlisle was importing dogs from Lady Howe and had a Jimmy Callahan as a gamekeeper at Wingan Kennels. Mr. Carlisle asked Lady Howe in a telegram about the availability of Mr. Elliot to come to the US and be his gamekeeper(age 29), David agreed to come for 5 years. But this lasted a lifetime.

    Some interesting tidbits I found his training. As a handsome Scot he attracted many young ladies at Wingan Kennel on Long Island. This group was affectionately called Elliot’s harem. This included Dorothy Howe (Rupert Kennel fame), Joan Redman (later Joan Read of Chidley Kennel fame), and also Kathleen Star (later Mrs. Fredericks of Timbertown Kennel fame). Also Paul Bakewell sent his young kennel boy Cotton Pershall to Wingan to learn how to handle dogs. Mr. Carlisle said these were the happiest times of his life. And he was especially proud when he won an Amateur stake with his favorite dog Orcharton Doris. I also found that David published in the premier journal that of the time that covered dog sports of the time “Point and Fetch.” In the May 1941 issue he has an interesting article called “1940 Retriever Trials Reviewed.” Also later in the Oct. and Nov. issues of Point and Fetch there are articles about David winning the Open stake with Hiwood Mike. These included 3 wins at the Long Island trial, the Rolling Rock trial, and the Women’s Trial.

    When Mr Carlisle’s will was read, David was given the Wingan name, the kennel equipment including the green specially built dog kennel car. I know here in Minnesota at the Kingswere Kennel he was employed. It is interesting to note that in the short time from 1946 to 1951 the kennel employed first Billy Wunderlich, the David Elliot, then Cotton Pershall as dedicated trainers at the kennel. When Cotton left M. King allowed Charlie Morgan to run her dogs. During this time this was a premier kennel because it had several dual champions.

    Finally when David was judging a trial he met a young lady from Canada, “Jackie,” and he was married for the first time at age 57. Eventually they moved to New Jersey and had a boarding kennel.

    Jack
    It was impossible, so it took a little longer to accomplish.

  11. #9
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Thanks Jack! I really love these stories.

    Tim-I'm really looking forward to getting the book and I'll send it right back!

    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you can’t take it back…"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
    Brassfire's Brass in Pocket JH, WCX ** (4 Master passes)
    Brassfire's New England Patriot (New Pup!!!)

  12. #10
    Member Reziac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by junbe View Post
    Here is a little information that I have found on David D. Elliot. First I am aware of two publications that he authored. The first “The Labrador Retriever” published in 1936 by Wingan Kennels. This is a very rare book and I only know of eight copies that retriever people have told me they possess. The one I have was given to Mr. Nash Buckingham by David D. Elliot.
    I've recently acquired #166 (of 1000 copies printed), originally presented to Charles W. Berg -- a name I recognize but can't offhand place. Anyone?

    I expect any copies not yet given out were lost or destroyed when the Carlisle mansion was demolished, IIRC in 1938.

    ETA: Found it... knew he was a Chessie guy... Owner of Lake Como Kennels in Philadelphia.
    Last edited by Reziac; 06-15-2019 at 01:05 AM.

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