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Thread: interesting stats for '19 nafc

  1. #11
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    I'm not being very productive at work this week.

    Average age = 6.9 years old
    Oldest dogs Tubb & Stevie (liter mates) = 10.4 years old
    Youngest dog Sheamus = 3.3 years old
    73 males & 51 females
    120 Labs, 3 Goldens, 1 Chesapeake

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  3. #12
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    I am fairly sure the progeny numbers are based on dogs entered in an AKC event from RR. No one has actual numbers except AKC of number of litters or pups registered and they claim they can not pull up those numbers. I remember this went round and round with LeanMac and the number of litters he sired. The litter numbers would be closer to actual if even one puppy is entered in a stake since RR is keeping records, but if no puppies are entered, that doesn't mean there were not more litters. The real puppy numbers are much higher, plus no matter what the stats are, you still have to train them. The stats aren't going to matter if you can't train them. There are lots of wannabe trainers out there
    Last edited by ErinsEdge; 06-04-2019 at 09:48 AM.
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  4. #13
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    I don't know what the accuracy of this data looks like. Awful lot of factors. Some of the percentages are very impressive.

    Cody has more than a third of his pups become FC's - interesting.
    I doubt is is correct. Shaq has 43 litters on hunting lab pedigree. That's only 4.5 puppies per litter. I would think it would be higher.

    Cody has 77 litters on hunting lab pedigree. That's less than an average of 2 per litter.

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  6. #14
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Parks View Post
    When you've been bred as much as he has your bound to have some turn out.

    This is a common refrain about all the great sires. That same comment can be made about any of the sires in the posted print out. But, the bottom line is that their offspring showed enough that people kept returning to the well.
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  7. #15
    Senior Member Bryan Parks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Parks View Post
    When you've been bred as much as he has your bound to have some turn out.

    This is a common refrain about all the great sires. That same comment can be made about any of the sires in the posted print out. But, the bottom line is that their offspring showed enough that people kept returning to the well.
    For sure.

    Not saying anything bad about Grady but look at the other numbers on that list.

    Even if it's close there are a lot more impressive percentages by other sites.
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  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Parks View Post
    For sure.

    Not saying anything bad about Grady but look at the other numbers on that list.

    Even if it's close there are a lot more impressive percentages by other sites.
    Well Brian a lot of us have asked you to explain your chart but you won't share your secret.
    Maybe you can share your secret with Mary Howley or Rita Jones or Mary Tatum

    And you're pretty impressed with the percentages of some of those dogs. I'm sure honcho stands out to you since he only had 47 puppies according to your chart and 33 of them became FC and 27 of them became AFC.
    60 titles out of only 47 progeny.
    Can't beat those numbers.
    Maybe you ought to ask doctor Ed if he's got a straw or two of Honcho hidden in his freezer somewhere that he would share with you

    Then why is Honcho ranked 79th?
    Why is Grady ranked #1?
    Why is Lean Mac ranked #2?

    Inquiring minds would want to know

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan View Post
    Well Brian a lot of us have asked you to explain your chart but you won't share your secret.
    Maybe you can share your secret with Mary Howley or Rita Jones or Mary Tatum
    Uhhh, the chart clearly came from Retriever Results website by clicking on the top Sires link...I don't think he's hiding a secret. And I'm pretty sure everyone else commenting realizes it's data from Retriever Results because they said as much.

    And the secret chart is clearly sorted by #FC Titles (see the arrow next to that column?) So, the "Rank" column is the total number of offspring. Honcho would be ranked 79th because the rank is based on total progency. Grady is ranked #1 because he has the highest total progency, Lean Mac is #2 because he has the second highest total progency. And total progency on Retriever Results is, as stated above, most likely counted by dogs that were entered in an AKC event of some type. So, it is not actually counting ALL of a sire's offsprings. Only AKC has this information and (as also stated above) they claim they cannot provide that information.
    Last edited by birddogn_tc; 06-04-2019 at 12:31 PM.

  10. #18
    Senior Member bamajeff's Avatar
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    Going along the lines of % and ranks. If you could have 1 pup out of any sire(current or deceased) with an hypothetical unknown field trial pedigreed(FC/AFC on entire 3-gen pedigree) female, who would you choose? I know Shadow pups are in high demand. A litter of 2 recently brought $7500 each, and this was before Hillmann won 3 derbies in a row with his Shadow pup.
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  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by birddogn_tc View Post
    Uhhh, the chart clearly came from Retriever Results website by clicking on the top Sires link...I don't think he's hiding a secret. And I'm pretty sure everyone else commenting realizes it's data from Retriever Results because they said as much.

    And the secret chart is clearly sorted by #FC Titles (see the arrow next to that column?) So, the "Rank" column is the total number of offspring. Honcho would be ranked 79th because the rank is based on total progency. Grady is ranked #1 because he has the highest total progency, Lean Mac is #2 because he has the second highest total progency. And total progency on Retriever Results is, as stated above, most likely counted by dogs that were entered in an AKC event of some type. So, it is not actually counting ALL of a sire's offsprings. Only AKC has this information and (as also stated above) they claim they cannot provide that information.
    The chart is very blurry on my phone, so as to make the bottom line illegible.
    That being said the secret I want to know is how did they figure the number of progeny for each one of the sires

  12. #20
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    There is always a lot of sound and fury, but scarce data when it comes to sires.

    In an ideal world, I would want to know:
    How many times were they bred?
    To whom were they bred?
    Who purchased the puppies?
    Who trained the puppies?
    What was the health of the puppies?

    Because that data is unavailable, almost all debate is anecdotal and conjectural.

    Anybody can take any position because there is insufficient hard data to support - or refute - that position. As a result, the debate becomes mostly meaningless
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

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