Why the desire for 'old school pedigrees'? - Page 2
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Thread: Why the desire for 'old school pedigrees'?

  1. #11
    Senior Member dorkweed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    A great performer may not be a great producer. With an older pedigree, you have more history available to consider. You know more about what worked, what didn't work, performance qualities, and health characteristics. Moreover, if you subscribe to Ed's theory of thought - and I do - there are more very good dogs running today - and fewer great ones.

    Different but the same applies..................

    Secretariats offspring were average for the most part. However; his daughters offspring produced many stakes winners. Every now and again you get a "freak of nature" that moves the bar so far forward that it take years/decades/generations for those following to even come close to the freak.
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  3. #12
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birddogn_tc View Post
    So, who are the "Great Ones" running TODAY? (not historically...but running today...or are there any?).
    So..who are the current great ones running right now?
    Everyone has their own idea of greatness. To me it is a generational dog, one with a long and distinguished career of accomplishment, one anyone would be more than proud to own. I know a couple of bitches retired that I knew very well who deserved to be in the conversation. I don’t run off of my home circuit these days so it is possible there are dogs I do not know who meet those criteria. I have one in mind that I know pretty well but I will think about it before anointing it with the G word.

  4. #13
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    At the risk of being called unqualified, I’m going to take a stab at considering at least one current male for the “great” label. Tubb, Texas Troubadour, has not only been outstandingly successful himself, if I’m not missing any he had three offspring in the just completed National Am and two were finalist. (Not where I can check this but I know I was impressed by the stats I read on the blog). And look at his own pedigree. Absolutely stacked with success as competitors and producers. Any others out there that think he qualifies for the G word?
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  6. #14
    Senior Member saltgrass's Avatar
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    Seems there was a Lean Mac breeding a couple of years ago? to a Seaside bitch? Dora? what happened to those pups? are they running q's yet?
    Cosmo is also one who has seen a lot of breedings as of late... one advertised just today.....
    Tobias... Very good question.. I know one of them is a gun dog and bought for that , one is with a trainer around here he and the client just bought a dog together that is running HT with.
    Not sure about any of the other pups ..
    Mike Boles

  7. #15
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltgrass View Post
    Tobias... Very good question.. I know one of them is a gun dog and bought for that , one is with a trainer around here he and the client just bought a dog together that is running HT with.
    Not sure about any of the other pups ..

    Thanks Mike, I remember the litter being advertised at about the same time I was looking for a pup... no way could I afford something like that, though. Interesting they let the pups go to non ft homes....
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

  8. #16
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
    At the risk of being called unqualified, I’m going to take a stab at considering at least one current male for the “great” label. Tubb, Texas Troubadour, Any others out there that think he qualifies for the G word?
    NAFC-FC Texas Troubadour has had a long distinguished career, he was a Finalist at the NARC and the oldest dog entered at 10.5, he is a generational dog to which the G word is appropriate. The other recipient, although retired, is NFC-AFC Robber’s Stray Bullet. Two great dogs this decade.
    It would be negligent in this discussion for me to not include two great bitches that I had the pleasure to see all too frequently, FC-AFC Bayou Star Beyond Independent and FC-AFC Hilltop’s High Society. Tia and Gracie are as good as they get. Bullet moved away at 5 or so, the others I saw on my circuit every weekend.
    Last edited by EdA; 06-24-2019 at 07:44 PM.

  9. #17
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    NAFC-FC Texas Troubadour has had a long distinguished career, he was a Finalist at the NARC and the oldest dog entered at 10.5, he is a generational dog to which the G word is appropriate. The other recipient, although retired, is NFC-AFC Robber’s Stray Bullet. Two great dogs this decade.
    It would be negligent in this discussion for me to not include two great bitches that I had the pleasure to see all too frequently, FC-AFC Bayou Star Beyond Independent and FC-AFC Hilltop’s High Society. Tia and Gracie are as good as they get. Bullet moved away at 5 or so, the others I saw on my circuit every weekend.

    Ed

    Remember the dinner we had with Dan and Bill when Bullet was approaching 80 derby points? I agree with you. He was an exceptional dog. Great.
    I never saw Tubb run until I judged the Open for you last Spring. He won and at the end of the field trial - I got it. Exceptional problem solver. Very heady dog. Great.

    Tia the same - very heady dog, exceptional problem solver. Great.
    I put Kweezy in the great category, also.
    I thought Gracie was an excellent dog, but a notch below Tia and Kweezy

    I would add to the great category - Auggie (FC/AFC Creek Robber and Bullet's sire) and Carbon (FC/AFC Carbon Copy of Horn Creek). They were exceptional animals.

    Ted
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
    FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie (2003 NARC Finalist)
    FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
    FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
    FC/AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer (2007 NARC Finalist)
    AFC Freeridin Maserati (Double Header Winner)
    FC/AFC Freeridin Miss Kitty (2017 High Point Yellow Lab Bitch)

    www.freeridinretrievers.com

  10. #18
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Interesting that the criteria - for a dog to be heady or a problem solver....Where does this attribute fit in with the other qualities of a 'great' dog? marking ability, team player, capacity to learn ----

    We hear so much that marking ability takes precedence... and perhaps it does... but how does problem solving fit into that particular ability... I am assuming the dogs' ability to know the area where it saw a bird fall, to remember it, and to be able to negotiate all the obstacles between himself and the bird without getting lost - to be able to think while 'on the run', so to speak.

    Thanks Ted and Ed - this has been a 'Great' adventure! --- pun intended, btw .. I look forward to reading more, hopefully not only from you two, but others here with long standing succes/exp in FT's.
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

  11. #19
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Interesting that the criteria - for a dog to be heady or a problem solver....Where does this attribute fit in with the other qualities of a 'great' dog? marking ability, team player, capacity to learn ----

    We hear so much that marking ability takes precedence... and perhaps it does... but how does problem solving fit into that particular ability... I am assuming the dogs' ability to know the area where it saw a bird fall, to remember it, and to be able to negotiate all the obstacles between himself and the bird without getting lost - to be able to think while 'on the run', so to speak.

    Thanks Ted and Ed - this has been a 'Great' adventure! --- pun intended, btw .. I look forward to reading more, hopefully not only from you two, but others here with long standing succes/exp in FT's.

    A very good mark has numerous decision points along the way
    - Angle the road
    - Hold the side hill
    - Fight the wind
    - Slide tight past an exposed gun
    - Catch a sliver of water, cover, etc

    The great ones make the decisions that keep them out of trouble

    Ted
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
    FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie (2003 NARC Finalist)
    FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
    FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
    FC/AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer (2007 NARC Finalist)
    AFC Freeridin Maserati (Double Header Winner)
    FC/AFC Freeridin Miss Kitty (2017 High Point Yellow Lab Bitch)

    www.freeridinretrievers.com

  12. #20
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    A very good mark has numerous decision points along the way
    - Angle the road
    - Hold the side hill
    - Fight the wind
    - Slide tight past an exposed gun
    - Catch a sliver of water, cover, etc

    The great ones make the decisions that keep them out of trouble

    Ted
    Add
    - high level of trainability
    - exceptional eyesight
    - superior intelligence
    - enhanced spatial awareness
    - they understand “the game”

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