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Marking drills or tips?

10K views 22 replies 16 participants last post by  P J 
#1 ·
Anybody here care to offer up some drills, tips, or pointers when it comes to marking?

I just can’t seem to figure out a way to improve my dogs marking ability. Hands down she isn’t a great marker. I would say mediocre at best. Very rarely will she pin anything. And often she will miss the go bird and it ends up being a hunt. On multiples, she remembers there is a bird out there as she will come back and look at in the direction of a mark indicating memory. But more often than not they lead to a hunt. Singles, doubles or triples. Doesn’t seem to make any difference what’s thrown. Seems like she marks the “general area” but not the “spot”. If that makes any sense.

I’m at the point where it’s pretty frustrating, kicking her off the line I never really have true confidence that she will get the mark easily.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks
Newf
 
#2 ·
Good "bird boys" or "good help" are indispensable.


Or do more marks in short cut grass.............let your dog see the bird on the ground. Stretch the distance before working into cover/cover changes.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Singles and birdboy help. Forget the multiples. She isn't concentrating. Nothing wrong with doing singles.

There is another possibility if she was EVER was marking, and that is if her nose isn't working and then they put on crazy hunts. Is there a lot of stuff blooming? Is she sneezing.
 
#6 ·
I guess I should have added a little more info, 5 year old female, running at Master/Qual level. Excellent hunting dog, ducks, geese, pheasants.

Regularly train in a field trial group, we have a healthy diet of singles in our training, hand thrown, wingers, and bumper boys.

The problem is she doesn’t mark the spot. But the area. Most all the time the marks end up being a hunt.

My gunners have told me on numerous occasions that she practically stepped on the bumper or bird but blows by it only to set up a hunt and run circles and eventually loop back and pick them up. If I decide to stop her and handle, quite often it’s a singe cast and she picks it up. If the gunners try to help lots of times she just ignores them and eventually “clues in”.

Quite puzzling.
 
#8 ·
You have been allowing him to hunt like that for an entire 5 years and done nothing. or is this recent? Have there been more bumpers than birds or even? What have you actually run? He's basically blinking bumpers and from what you say birds.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Not not nothing. There’s been drills, and lots of repetition, It’s been a constant battle. She’s never been a good marker. But it’s seemingly getting worse. Or my patience are getting thinner. One or the other. More bumpers than birds for sure. But doesn’t seem to matter. Result is the same.

I should add that we did pick up a certificate of merit in a derby just before she turned two. So she could mark at one point. But now I can’t get through a setup without a handle or help.

Just looking for extra ideas. At this point it’s almost a lost cause, but since a new pup isn’t in the cards yet I’ll do what I can.
 
#15 ·
How about throwing live shackled birds for the marks? Especially the memory mark. That ought to get a hunting dog’s attention.
I use a lot of Bumper boys for the fast set up, ability to throw helper marks, etc. However, they can have a hard time finding them in cover, even using scent sticks does not help much, but attaching a duck wing can add enough scent to make a big hunt a much smaller one.
I am fortunate that my 6yr old is a fabulous upland dog, this absolutely loves it, but she understands the difference between hunting and running a line on a blind.
 
#16 · (Edited)
My first dog was a lot like this, she would always watch flyers, but dead birds she would glance in the general direction and end up hunting them most of the time. Well until I got on her with a collar correction, or commanded her come back in all of the sudden she "knew" where those birds were. I guess the question is the dog really not able to mark? or is the dog just not that interested in taking responsibility for marking (lack of work ethic)? I like you hunted my dog early, she had only seen live flyers, thus dead birds were, dead so no real need to pick them up in a hurry; plus she knew if she could get to the general area she'd find them thus didn't need to really mark them. When everything was fresh and new, she enjoyed doing it, when she got to be ~3-5yrs. it was no longer new, but "gasp" work. I swear she'd look a me like "That idiot just threw a dead bird?" He should pick it up".

First thing I had to do was enforce that the dog actually would mark the bird all the way to the ground not just flash mark and move on to the next station. So basically she got nothing but singles, setup as multiples, until she would focus all the way down. Then when we worked on multiples; If she took her eyes off the mark, I'd send her; she'd be caught off guard and most likely get corrected, and she learned better keep watching. 80% of the time the dog got nothing but singles. I also had to start enforcing an "intelligent" hunt area. Basically, a very small area where it was acceptable for "her" to hunt and if she didn't get to that area initially she would get corrected. I say "her" area as it was a lot smaller than what would be acceptable for a dog that wasn't prone to messing around in the field, or not actually watching her marks. I'd also do dirt clod drills or have the Bird-boy sneak the bird out of the area. She still was expected to get to and stay in that area. Enough repetition and I believe it became more work for her to not just pick up the mark, and come back ;). I ended up getting all her titles, finished a few Quals, and she actually would put on a good showing, but then she was getting to be 8-9ish, and I had a pup that actually wanted to play stupid games, so we both decided that she would just do what she wanted to do (My life has been a whole lot less stressful since she got it her way ;)). It can be done but you really need to be no-tolerance all the time, training-days will always be work; do it enough and usually the dog will show up for game day. Find good training partners and groups to work with that understand what this dog needs, My girl also liked to play "poor me" to a crowd. We didn't make any good progress until we started working with someone that showed me how to maintain the dog to standard all the time, and training partners that understood why I always had to be no-tolerance with her. My training partner calls her Rod Man, dog would show up on game day but hated repetition-training.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Would be nice to hear what advice your training group is giving you. Do a marking drill with thrower about 30 yards out. 4 orange bumpers. They are singles all throw on same side. Do not mix by throwing both sides facing the line. First retrieve is 90 degrees to side. Second is in throw toward the line away from thrower. Third is a back throw away from line. Fourth is short throw directly in front of thrower while sitting down. About ten feet. Remember this is a drill. Repeat it often.
 
#19 ·
The drill that helped my dog improve his marking ability TREMENDOUSLY was to have a bird boy out in the field in lighter cover with a bucket of bumpers. He would throw a bumper and once it landed he would start to walk away before I sent my dog. The bumpers would be thrown in all directions, at varying distances, he would walk in all directions (even towards the dog or across the line to the bumper), etc. This taught my dog to focus on the bumper and ignore what is happening around him. As I said this drill had a significant impact on my dog's marking ability. He ran the remaining 6 tests of the season without having to be handled on a mark. And it is not because I am a great trainer or he is a field trial dog. I run this drill routinely to this day.
 
#20 ·
I posted this same problem a while back with my gun dog. It’s so funny as my dog is a great pheasant and grouse dog that can mark so good while running around. It seems in a duck blind he would mark but hunt short.I tried your advice tonight with orange bumpers and duck wings. He rocked it and later we threw a mark he ran a blind and the back to the mark with no hunts at all. 😀😀😀 I will keep doing this. Thanks.
 
#21 ·
very interested I am having the same problem with my 16 month old pup. She literally jumped over a bird the other day and ran 20 yards past and hunted back down to the bird. If I try to run doubles she sometimes puts on such a big hunt with the go bird it gives her problems with the memory bird. I have done a bunch of hillmans y drill and sometimes it seams like she is improving and others not.
 
#22 ·
A few things come to mind..

Maturity issue with some of these pups
Staking them out between runs to let them calm down some
More running around loose with no training - take them for a hike and let them explore
Salting the area, particularly on memory birds
Using fresh birds most often in training

I could go on in general and never give you a "drill" but rather, look for ways to help pup focus more on the task and not be so high as a kite that they just have to "run"...

I'd wager some of the dogs mentioned in this thread aren't getting the mental stimulation that need and when they get freedom + birds they go a little nuts.

Just thinking out loud, of course.
 
#23 ·
Bill's method works good, but I was shown another method that I have found to be effective as well.

Put out stick men, place ducks out at predetermined places in relation to those stick men. Have an individual throw a WHITE bumper from the stick man to the duck, this drill starts in short cover with little to no factors. As the dog gains confidence, add in cover and other factors. The distance can vary, based on the dogs level of experience.
 
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