going back to the blind considered going back to an old fall? Hunt test question
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Thread: going back to the blind considered going back to an old fall? Hunt test question

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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Default going back to the blind considered going back to an old fall? Hunt test question

    Senior Water series..

    Handlers instructed to run the water blind first, which is up the middle of a channel between where the marks are going to land..... Marks are then thrown. Left hand memory mark is somewhat close to the blind - both are up on land - but the blind is not inside the AOF of the mark, at least IMO - The mark is maybe 25 yd in front of and 20-25 feet off the line to the blind. I didn't range the mark - maybe 55-65 yd...

    If dog heads to the fall, but then veers to the blind and puts up a hunt there, would that be considered going back to an old fall?
    Last edited by Tobias; 08-05-2019 at 11:36 AM.
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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    From the rules
    page 30

    A dog that returns to the area of a fall or a blind that
    it has previously retrieved and establishes another hunt shall be considered to have returned to an old fall. Unless in the opinion of the Judges there exist valid mitigating circumstances, a dog that returns to an old fall shall be scored low in Perseverance and/or Marking, even to the extent of awarding a grade of “zero
    If you are offended by what is said, ask yourself, is it because it was true?

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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenpoacher View Post
    From the rules
    page 30

    A dog that returns to the area of a fall or a blind that
    it has previously retrieved and establishes another hunt shall be considered to have returned to an old fall. Unless in the opinion of the Judges there exist valid mitigating circumstances, a dog that returns to an old fall shall be scored low in Perseverance and/or Marking, even to the extent of awarding a grade of “zero
    interesting... so it may have been allowed... or may not have..... one of those questions that popped into my head driving home... glad I chose to handle. Makes me wonder if anyone had asked the judges, what they would have said.
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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    Was the blind between the marks?

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    So basically the mark is 25 yards short of where the blind was planted and 8 to 10 yards off line of the blind? From your description, it's going to be really hard for a dog to check down on the mark after being handled long and having success. Since the dog didn't see a bird fall on the blind, you can't really call it returning to an old fall in my opinion. Plus, the blind is inside your test. If the blind is way outside your test then it's a different conversation.

    My gut tells me to err on the side of the dog and chalk it up to bad mechanics. One caveat though, I'm not hunt test judge although I did stay @ a Holiday Inn Express last night.

    RD
    Official Launcher of the 2005, 2006,2007,2008,2009 & 2010 HRC Fall & Spring Grand!

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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jforqueran View Post
    Was the blind between the marks?
    Yes - but legal because the marks had not been thrown
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    interesting... so it may have been allowed... or may not have..... one of those questions that popped into my head driving home... glad I chose to handle. Makes me wonder if anyone had asked the judges, what they would have said.
    I think you did the right thing. Test, trial or training and no matter what the rules say a dog should not be allowed to hunt an old fall.
    If you are offended by what is said, ask yourself, is it because it was true?

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    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenpoacher View Post
    I think you did the right thing. Test, trial or training and no matter what the rules say a dog should not be allowed to hunt an old fall.

    That is true. I would not allow it, regardless.. just going over all.that happened at the tests..and how I might have helped or hurt my dog if I had done things differently. We did pass both days.
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Yes - but legal because the marks had not been thrown
    While it may very well have been legal. It was not a very well designed test IMO! While you think that the AOF fall for the mark and blind did not interfere with one another, your dog told you another thing. And.....That's the reason that the rule book says that the blind shall be outside of the marks!

  12. #10
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Yep.. it was
    .. the judges found a way to utilize the water they had available in a 'creative's way, that is for certain. I believe their callbacks/passes were given to take into consideration the difficulty of the test.
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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