Silver Labs: Pretty decent practical take from a dog trainer. Long but worth it IMO. - Page 2
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Thread: Silver Labs: Pretty decent practical take from a dog trainer. Long but worth it IMO.

  1. #11
    Senior Member txrancher's Avatar
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    If owners do not adhere to the breed standard they are detrimental to the breed. Somewhere along the breeding these dogs will find their way into other Labradors and when the waters are muddy we will have a mess we don't want or need to be faced with. Be a responsible breeder, breed to the standard and use only animals that have health clearances!
    I ignore stupidity unless you bring it to my attention!
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  3. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    If you take the time to listen to him - he's not advocating one way or the other about anything and he does know quite a bit of the anecdotal history and story telling. He also talk about some of the deficiencies in the silver dogs he's seen as they relate to proper labradors. If you had someone who was considering a silver, thinking they were really getting a lab, and they watched that video, I think they'd be pretty convinced by the end not to go that route. He does a nice job of explaining why without truly advocating one way or another. Allows a person to come to their own conclusion - which we all know is the most effect way to change someone's mind. Pretty good piece, I think.
    I agree with Darrin, it is actually a very good video that touches on many points regarding the issues in a non-confrontational format. One thing that I did notice was at times he was eluding to the "hey, they're nice dogs so what's the big deal" as a way to diffuse negative attitudes about them. My only issue with this effort at breaking up a conflict is when people do that it seems that they really don't get it completely. Respect for the breed, that, at least for myself is the driving force of concern. This whole doggy world trend towards designer-esque dogs is something that individuals who truly admire and respect the Labrador definitely do not want as part of the Lab's future.

  4. #13
    Junior Member Jakester's Avatar
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    Default I found a litter

    Here's a litter
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  6. #14
    Senior Member Irishwhistler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by windycanyon View Post
    The AKC Parent club (LRC, Inc) feels very strongly about the topic. Funny thing but so do my Weim friends. Everyone associated w/ real Labs and Weims knows Silvers / dilutes are really a mix. Let them form their own breed. Just don't call it a Labrador of any sorts.
    I fully concur.👍

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  7. #15
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakester View Post
    Here's a litter
    Don't give the AKC any ideas, for a little money they might register that litter.
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

  8. #16
    Junior Member SLAB's Avatar
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    What's sad is there are poor quality silver labs but there are better quality silver labradors as well. They have in fact been crossed with BYC labs since before the 1980's and there are thousands and thousands out there now. There may be some screwball labs that have 'deficiencies' as compared to some top quality byc labs, but you can say that with any poorly bred byc labrador as well. it's all in the breeding. The silver labradors aren't going anywhere just like the yellow lab didn't go anywhere, nor the chocolate labrador go anywhere, it will just take more time.

  9. #17
    Senior Member Bryan Parks's Avatar
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    Chocolate and yellow have never been disputed as pure even if they were not liked.

    They have been documented in the breed all the way back to the beginning.
    HRCH Washita's Kimber Locked N Loaded

  10. #18
    Junior Member SLAB's Avatar
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    Chocolate was not well accepted in the beginning... https://www.thelabradorsite.com/chocolate-labrador/
    Last edited by SLAB; 11-27-2019 at 02:00 PM.

  11. #19
    Senior Member Bryan Parks's Avatar
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    "Well accepted" and recognized in the standard are different things. The brown color can be traced back to the origins of the breed.

    It's not even close to the same thing as the recessive dilute allele just popping up in the breed decades after the standard was set.
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  12. #20
    Senior Member Don Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLAB View Post
    What's sad is there are poor quality silver labs but there are better quality silver labradors as well. They have in fact been crossed with BYC labs since before the 1980's and there are thousands and thousands out there now. There may be some screwball labs that have 'deficiencies' as compared to some top quality byc labs, but you can say that with any poorly bred byc labrador as well. it's all in the breeding. The silver labradors aren't going anywhere just like the yellow lab didn't go anywhere, nor the chocolate labrador go anywhere, it will just take more time.
    With all due respect, I think you're missing the point. Unlike the historical case with yellows and chocolates, it's not about being accepted. With dilutes, it's about being a cross-breed. The scientific, verifiable evidence is that silver (and all dilute) "Labs" are not purebred. They are the result, somewhere in their background, of a cross between a Lab and a Weimaraner. A purebred Lab has two dominant genes on the D Locus, i.e. DD. A dilute "Lab" has two recessive genes on the D Locus, i.e. dd. The scary part is there are "Labs" out there that phenotypically are colored like Labs, i.e. black, yellow or chocolate, but, genotypically carry the dilute gene, i.e. Dd on the D Locus, because there was a dilute in the background. Even though the AKC hypocritically ignores the Joint Statement to which they agreed and persist in registering dilutes, the fact is the they agreed with LRC in 2017 that dilutes are not purebred. Following is the Joint Statement to which both LRC and AKC agreed on June 13, 2017. Read the second paragraph closely. The second sentence of that paragraph is dispositive.

    "According to the breed standard, established by the Labrador Retriever Club, Inc., there are three acceptable colors of Labrador Retrievers. Those colors are Black (all black), Yellow (fox-red to light cream), and Chocolate (light to dark chocolate). Silver is not an acceptable color of Labrador Retriever and is a disqualifying fault. Based on an agreement in 1987 between the American Kennel Club and the LRC, it was agreed that there was no proof that these silver dogs were not purebred and the breeders of the silver dogs subsequently registered them as chocolates.

    Using parentage testing, it cannot conclusively be proven that silver Labradors are not purebred dogs or are crossed with Weimaraners. The Labrador Retriever breed does not carry the dilute gene dd that appears universally in the Weimaraner and is responsible for silver color.

    Responsible breeders are tasked with breeding for health and standard and not solely for aesthetic. While we respect the choice of pet owners to select the breed of their choice, the LRC, Inc. does not view silver Labradors as appropriate breeding stock and believes that they should not be bred. They may compete in AKC events but are disqualified from the conformation show ring."

    The reference to DNA parentage testing in the first sentence the second paragraph is true, but meaningless, since parentage testing only determines the DNA of the sire and dam. As I said, the second sentence is dispositive - if a purebred Lab doesn't carry the dilute gene and if that gene is universally found in Weimaraners and is responsible for their silver color, then ANY "Lab" that exhibits "dd" on the D Locus is not a purebred Lab. There is no other possible interpretation. This is why it's incumbent on all to follow LRC's November 1, 2016 recommendation to D Locus test their Lab(s) before breeding to insure that the D Locus for that dog exhibits DD, i.e. to insure that it's a purebred Lab.
    Last edited by Don Smith; 11-28-2019 at 07:54 AM.
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