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Thread: Camel's Back?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Dave Farrar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripline View Post
    Maybe they should pass a law making murder illegal......
    Yes, we need common sense laws against murder. Perhaps even make driving under the influence illegal.
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  3. #12
    Senior Member duckheads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
    What are you thinking they might do?

    Bring to the forefront sensible gun legislation? Maybe the Senate (Mitch) will allow a vote on something to do with Guns?

    Wouldn't that be incredible, they might actual do some governing!!!! How nice.
    Please enlighten us as to what you feel are sensible gun laws that will prevent these shootings?

    Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. There were 40 people shot in Chicago this past weekend. Please tell us what sensible guns laws should be passed in Chicago that will stop the shootings?

    We can never pass enough laws to control evil, evil does not obey laws!
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  4. #13
    Senior Member Mikegillam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckheads View Post
    Please enlighten us as to what you feel are sensible gun laws that will prevent these shootings?

    Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. There were 40 people shot in Chicago this past weekend. Please tell us what sensible guns laws should be passed in Chicago that will stop the shootings?

    We can never pass enough laws to control evil, evil does not obey laws!
    So, we all know that we will never stop every single gun killing in this country, if for no other reason than the sheer number of guns in our society. And while Chicago is THE response by many, it seems there are some common sense things that may (research proves in some cases) have a positive impact on gun deaths...murder, domestic violence, suicides, mass shootings...Universal background checks eliminate the gun show loophole, wait periods can reduce suicides and homicides, eliminating large capacity clip mental health plays a part, but research shows it may not be as big an influencer as we think. Also, using mental health would require background checks for all gun sales (universal background checks). And since suicides outnumber homicides....maybe we should start there, before we start to tackle the chronic poverty across our country ( which plays a enormous part in the murder rate of our country).
    " Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, (red) wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!" Unknown

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  6. #14

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    US population as of 8/2/19 - 329,288,125
    Death by firearms in 2017 - 39,773
    Death by suicide 26,250
    Death by murder. 13,523


    13,523 divided by 329,288,125 = .00004107


    Looks like current procedures are keeping homicides pretty low. If someone wants to kill someone, they will find a way.
    I used to be M&Ks Retrievers but for some reason I could no longer post. Ya think the mods trying to tell me something?

  7. #15
    Senior Member nogie1717's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker & Jessie View Post
    US population as of 8/2/19 - 329,288,125
    Death by firearms in 2017 - 39,773
    Death by suicide 26,250
    Death by murder. 13,523


    13,523 divided by 329,288,125 = .00004107


    Looks like current procedures are keeping homicides pretty low. If someone wants to kill someone, they will find a way.
    I'm not trying to be facetious, but is it your position that Americans, both in government and society/culture, should do nothing to prevent mass shootings from occurring?
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  8. #16
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogie1717 View Post
    I'm not trying to be facetious, but is it your position that Americans, both in government and society/culture, should do nothing to prevent mass shootings from occurring?

    nogie..........that is a real 'stupid' question based on what Tucker & Jessie provided! I believe he was just trying to give some perspective using data vs. the media rhetoric/blame game we get every time something like this happens.

    Why is it after the fact, when a mass shooting happens, we frequently here people who knew the killer say he was not normal, or they knew he was dangerous, they even get law enforcement involved or maybe the Principal of the school, yet no one takes these fears serious! Or when the do, Political Correctness takes over and they walk away from the problem. Why is that? A major part of the solutions, I believe, is in this area....like suicides, someone talking about violence must be taken serious.....ALWAYS!

  9. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by nogie1717 View Post
    I'm not trying to be facetious, but is it your position that Americans, both in government and society/culture, should do nothing to prevent mass shootings from occurring?

    If you could cut that number in half, it would be far too many. I'm suggesting that current methods are as effective as any without infringing on rights. I'm sure if we required people to wear crash helmets in cars and other public conveyances, lives would be saved. How stupid would that be? Stricter gun laws have not shown to be effective. Chicago is a great example. My position is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    I used to be M&Ks Retrievers but for some reason I could no longer post. Ya think the mods trying to tell me something?

  10. #18
    Senior Member Mikegillam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    nogie..........that is a real 'stupid' question based on what Tucker & Jessie provided! I believe he was just trying to give some perspective using data vs. the media rhetoric/blame game we get every time something like this happens.

    Why is it after the fact, when a mass shooting happens, we frequently here people who knew the killer say he was not normal, or they knew he was dangerous, they even get law enforcement involved or maybe the Principal of the school, yet no one takes these fears serious! Or when the do, Political Correctness takes over and they walk away from the problem. Why is that? A major part of the solutions, I believe, is in this area....like suicides, someone talking about violence must be taken serious.....ALWAYS!
    As a High school principal for about 20 years, I can tell you I saw a wide range of behaviors that didn’t mean a person would become a murderer. Does a 14 yr old student making a hit list mean he will be a mass murderer.? Maybe. Maybe not. Does it mean they get expelled and reported to police. Yes. Does that mean they will get counseling? Maybe. I don’t think in the last 20 years, talk of violence has been ignored by any school personnel, my experience is that, if anything, things that are not really an issue, get reported just because of an aver abundance of caution. Identification of personality disorders and mental health issues have become more and more common, as medicine and science understand the hows and whys. Depression, bi polar, autism spectrum, ptsd, are all seen more and more, not necessarily because there are more people who have “issues”, but because the science of identification has improved. Many mental health identifications can be treated with medication, some must be treated with meds and counseling. I am not sure where you think political correctness determines who/who doesn’t get identified or reported, but I would like to hear your experience.
    " Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, (red) wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!" Unknown

  11. #19
    Senior Member Mikegillam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker & Jessie View Post
    If you could cut that number in half, it would be far too many. I'm suggesting that current methods are as effective as any without infringing on rights. I'm sure if we required people to wear crash helmets in cars and other public conveyances, lives would be saved. How stupid would that be? Stricter gun laws have not shown to be effective. Chicago is a great example. My position is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    How do we know current laws are as effective as enacting additional restrictions? Until we enact and research additional methods, everything is a guess. If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you have always gotten. Change is difficult for everyone, however there is some research data that shows certain restrictions can have a positive impact on gun deaths. I don’t know that wait periods, red flag laws, limiting large capacity magazines, etc...infringes on anyone’s rights.
    " Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, (red) wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!" Unknown

  12. #20
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker & Jessie View Post
    If you could cut that number in half, it would be far too many. I'm suggesting that current methods are as effective as any without infringing on rights. I'm sure if we required people to wear crash helmets in cars and other public conveyances, lives would be saved. How stupid would that be? Stricter gun laws have not shown to be effective. Chicago is a great example. My position is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    This is mostly the point I have been making for years myself. People will say "if it saves one life...", but just try to propose that the government really do something to save lives, for instance, 45mph speed limit, all vehicles have 5 point safety harnesses, cell phones will not work above 5mph, everyone in a vehicle must wear a helmet, minimum 10yr sentence on first conviction of DWI. All cars must have windows that automatically go down if the temperature in the car reaches 95 degrees (that would save the lives of children and pets forgotten in sealed vehicles in hot weather). That covers motor vehicles. Now, for the number one cause of death in children under 5, all children must be taught to swim as babies (it can be done), outlaw backyard pools, no bathtubs in any home with children under the age of 5, showers only (most drownings of very young children occur in the tub). That would save many more than 1 life. NO private airplanes. They are much more dangerous than flying commercially.

    What gets the left really excited are so called "mass shootings". Unfortunately, that term has lots of definitions. The anti gun lobby defines it as any incident where 4 or more people are shot (not killed) under any circumstances. I don't think that is what most people have in mind when the term mass shooting comes up. Here is a bit of a take on defining the term:

    When defined as any incident in which four or more people are shot, the number of mass shootings for the first 216 days of 2019 is above 250. When mass shooting is defined as an incident in which more four or more people are killed (and excludes domestic and other more conventional crime-related violence) the number of mass shootings during that time period in 2019 is seven. If we include conventional crime-related incidents, such as domestic violence, the number of mass shootings is around 17.

    If you only include what most people probably think of when they hear the term "mass shooting", there have been two that I can think of, but I may be missing one. Taking your stats and looking only at people killed in actual "mass killings" you would need to divide 29 by 329,288,129. That is a number so small as to be approaching 0.

    Last edited by HPL; 08-07-2019 at 05:51 PM.
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