Re: is this a new trend in field trials - Page 2
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Thread: Re: is this a new trend in field trials

  1. #11
    Senior Member Mike W.'s Avatar
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    There are also former pros, who now hold themselves out as Amateurs, who are paid under the table to train dogs for clients, and frequently run those dogs for their clients in the Amateur.
    Yup. The thing is they have been dishonest for so long that they have come to believe what they are doing is OK. And it goes deeper, the several people in the "training groups" are dirty also.

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  3. #12

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    That’s why hunt test are having a lot more people participate than field trials. To many political games in trials.
    Keep plugging Away!

  4. #13
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD Lab View Post
    That’s why hunt test are having a lot more people participate than field trials. To many political games in trials.
    I'd think it has more to do with the fact that hunt tests are not competitive... that a vast majority of well bred dogs can be successful... and that the relative 'time' it takes to get that MH title is much less than (and more attainable) than it is an FC or AFC title...
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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  6. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD Lab View Post
    That’s why hunt test are having a lot more people participate than field trials. To many political games in trials.
    Take the pros out of AKC hunt tests and the participation isn't so great.
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD Lab View Post
    That’s why hunt test are having a lot more people participate than field trials. To many political games in trials.
    Wait a few years, HT have historically not had to deal with the definition of amateur but with the advent of the Master Amateur Invitational you will see the same "games" played. Especially if they ever create a Master Amat title.

    Tim
    Last edited by Tim Carrion; 08-10-2019 at 12:40 PM.
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD Lab View Post
    That’s why hunt test are having a lot more people participate than field trials. To many political games in trials.
    There's nothing 'political' about the issue that Mike brought up.

    It's about people who want to win so badly that they are willing to compromise the spirit of the game which is supposed to allow Amateurs to compete separately from the Professionals. It's not about who trained the dog, but rather people who run many or all of the dogs that are on a Pro's truck. Ultimately, the real problem is that the actual owners consent to this.

    If someone is routinely running a Pro's string of dogs that they do not own, it may be within the framework of the rules, but it is certainly not what was intended when the Amateur Stake came into being.

    Sadly, some circumvent this by listing others as part owner. This even goes on in the Q, where owner-handler stakes have pro involvement thru listing the Pro as as part owner. Again, this is not what was intended when the owner handler stake was ok'd by the AKC. Legal, yes. Ethical? You decide. -Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  9. #17
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    When I did ftretrieverjudge.net it did not take long to question who was circumventing the rules & who was not.
    At that time I had the wonderful resource of being able to verify what I was seeing on paper through someone
    more knowledgeable of the social aspects of the game. Unfortunately the majority of these unethical people allow
    their views if it means an additional dollar might drop in their pocket & for the most, they are knowledgeable dog
    people so end up dictating the direction of the sport, to the sports detriment. When you have felons judging what
    can you expect? Whole litters being campaigned in the Derby by the breeder, each pup owned by someone who is
    a member of the Who's Who of the sport. That was brought to my attention by someone from that area where it
    happened.

    A good friend of mine marshalled a stake with 2 very well known breeder trainer (make money out of the sport)
    folks judging. The top 2 dogs (in their mind) ended up being dogs they had more than a casual interest in them
    getting the blue. The argument over who got the placing got settled by ????????? & certainly not by another test.

    Given the unwillingness of the AKC to do what they should do, the RAC being stacked, & people being people the
    alternative is to start your own venue. Think that could happen?
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  10. #18

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    I'm new to this retriever game, but not to field trials (been involved in pointing dogs for decades). Here is what I have come to see. Field trials campaigned at a high level take either a great deal of commitment and/or financial sacrifice on the part of the owner, or it may just flat-out be a rich man's game.

    One can debate all these things till they are blue in the face. If your dog spends his life on the back of a pro's truck, but you take him home a month before the National Amateur to re-acquaint yourself with the dog, and then win the big enchilada, how in hell is that an amateur dog?

    Justsayin.

    Don't shoot the messenger, just sharing what are my thoughts.

  11. #19
    Senior Member Bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Carrion View Post
    Wait a few years, HT have historically not had to deal with the definition of amateur but with the advent of the Master Amateur Invitational you will see the same "games" played. Especially if they ever create a Master Amat title.

    Tim
    Nailed it!!! It has already begun.

    History repeating itself regards

    Bubba
    There are three classes of people: those who see...those who see when shown...and those who do not see. - Leonardo da Vinci

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    This is a question and I am curious about opinions:

    Is it a trend or has this always gone on: A pro uses a person with amateur standing to run other individuals dogs to put AFCs on the dogs and also qualify them for the National Amateur Retriever Championship so that the owners can run the National. And at the same time this Amateur Individual has his own dog but does not run it in the Amateur but runs it in the open when he is running the other dogs in the Amateur?

    Is this acceptable?
    He is an Amateur first impression.
    Is this good sportsmanship?
    Just curious, if said Amateur had gone out in 1st series of AM would there be a post? Or are we posting because said dog came in and cleaned house and won both the Open and the AM?
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