Re: is this a new trend in field trials - Page 4
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Thread: Re: is this a new trend in field trials

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Chief View Post
    This thread should be deleted.
    Why? Because someones feelings were hurt?
    ROCK CHALK

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  3. #32
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    Ron Root has to pay airfare? Jeeze

  4. #33
    Senior Member Twin Willows Labs's Avatar
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    A couple of scenarios to consider:

    1. Owners A & B, unrelated, both have their dogs on a top tier truck. Owner A has a dog qualified for NARC. Owner B does not. Owner B has also recently earned Purina High Point Amateur and is decidedly a better handler than Owner A. Owner B runs Owner A's dog at NARC. Is this unethical?

    2. Owners A (bitch owner) & B (stud owner), unrelated, bred a litter a few years ago. Since then, Owner A's pup from that litter has had great success while Owner B's stud has since become a NAFC. Owner A is a purely amateur trainer, while Owner B uses a top tier pro. Owner B handles Owner A's pup at NARC, along with their own NAFC sire. Is this unethical?

    If either or both are unethical, why?

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  6. #34
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    I believe each one of your examples are absolutely legal. How one feels about it is a different story. But what about the issue of running a dog in owner handler Amat. Stake. What is legal there?

    My original post just dealt with new trend but I guess it is not new but different ways to qualify a dog for the Amat Nationals. I may not like it but it’s legal.
    Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it.

    CH SILVERCREEK MURRAY SAMUEL (MURRAY) WDQ CGC MH, QAA2 2/16/00 - 12/26/12
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  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    I believe each one of your examples are absolutely legal. How one feels about it is a different story. But what about the issue of running a dog in owner handler Amat. Stake. What is legal there?

    My original post just dealt with new trend but I guess it is not new but different ways to qualify a dog for the Amat Nationals. I may not like it but it’s legal.
    I understand that both are legal. My question is do you consider them ethical?

    Twin Willows Lil Miss Zoey SH ***
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    Andrew's Baby Saint 4/20/01-9/10/15
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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin Willows Labs View Post
    I understand that both are legal. My question is do you consider them ethical?
    I don't run FT's so I should not be commenting. But I don't think either of those scenarios seem unethical.

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin Willows Labs View Post
    I understand that both are legal. My question is do you consider them ethical?
    Nothing unethical. It is well within the rules. I would think things like pushing the limits of the rules or being deceitful may become unethical. An example of "deceitful" in my mind is when someone list another as a co-owner just so someone else can run in an owner/handler when that person is not really a co-owner. Another (maybe less clear) is when a former pro declares amateur status, but still trains dogs for the purpose of selling for a profit to others. I feel both of these situations are pushing the rules beyond their intent. A situation that I feel is OK is when a professional co-owns a dog with an amateur for a discounted purchase price or other financial arrangement.
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  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjoiner View Post
    Nothing unethical.
    . An example of "deceitful" in my mind is when someone list another as a co-owner just so someone else can run in an owner/handler when that person is not really a co-owner.

    ....A situation that I feel is OK is when a professional co-owns a dog with an amateur for a discounted purchase price or other financial arrangement.
    I'm confused! Please explain how these situations are different both seem to allow for a dog to be entered in a stake that it would not otherwise be eligible and the latter allows for a special " financial arrangement".

    Tim

    PS: How in the world can we expect a FTC that is responsible for determining the entry eligibility to sort through these private arrangements? IMHO we can not. Fortunately most play the game the right way but there has been and always will exceptions.
    Last edited by Tim Carrion; 08-13-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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  11. #39
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjoiner View Post
    Nothing unethical. It is well within the rules. .

    Bubba,

    You are equating ethics with the rules? Really?

    I show up at the Amateur (not O/H Amateur), I pull 15 dogs off the pro truck and run them in the Amateur. I own none of them. Legal? Yes. Ethical? I don't think so.

    Ted
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  12. #40
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    I am glad Ted Shih is on this. And this is just my opinion. We need to look at the legislative history of why the Amateur Stake was legislated into field trials.

    As a side note I believe bigger powers are watching and this will be deleted. My opinion to cover tracks.
    Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it.

    CH SILVERCREEK MURRAY SAMUEL (MURRAY) WDQ CGC MH, QAA2 2/16/00 - 12/26/12
    WESTWIND WHISPERING COVE (LARRY son of Murray) WDQ MH, QAA2 8/5/05-3/20/18
    LPK DELAWARE RIVER WHISPERING COVE, WDQ, QAA2, MH (SAVAGE SAM son of FC Chester MH)
    WESTWIND WHISPERING COVE JAY QAA, MH (Larry's son and Murray's grandson)

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