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Thread: Derby test design ?

  1. #11
    Senior Member labsforme's Avatar
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    I agree and have actually given a placement to a dog that cheated a corner of the pond but knew where the birds were and did the best overall job. It's too bad that some judges are ignoring the instructions from the Rule Book and the reasoning behind what we are judging.

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  3. #12
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    The number of people who understand that marking is about where the dog thinks the bird is rather than how it arrives there is gratifying. We should judge lines on blinds not on marks.

  4. #13
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    I would say the vast majority of judges would place A higher than B. Also, the vast majority would place B over A if B had swam all the way and put his nose on the bird.
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  6. #14
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjoiner View Post
    I would say the vast majority of judges would place A higher than B. Also, the vast majority would place B over A if B had swam all the way and put his nose on the bird.

    I think you are being generous. I think the majority of judges care about getting in the water and staying in the water - both in the minor and major stakes. I have seen plenty of judges ignore a mark in favor of a dog getting in the water - and staying in the water - to the extent of over swimming the mark by 50-100 yards and then returning to the bird.

    It is not how I judge, but it is what I see weekend after weekend
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  7. #15
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    There will always be fussing about judging because it is subjective. If you don’t like a judges setup or judgement, it’s pretty simple, don’t run under them anymore.

    I truly love the trial game. There have been times I didn’t agree with callbacks. A few I was on the bad side. The last one, I was on the good. When you’re on the bad side, judge your satisfaction based on how you and your dog did. When your on the good, take advantage of it and get some color. If you can’t handle the bad, this game isn’t for you, stop running and stop complaining. I would rather focus on the positives. Everyone hates to get judged out. Main thing is don’t run with Rose colored glasses and understand what you need to work on.

    Support the judges and thank them. I guarantee you they would rather be running their dogs. There are a lot of good judges out there. If your in a club, go get them (years in advance if needed). Good judges make for a good trial. The best way to get good judges is to judge yourself and offer to help them if they’ll help you. You’ll also meet a lot of good folks and good judges.
    Last edited by bjoiner; 08-12-2019 at 09:56 AM.
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  8. #16
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUWGBS17 View Post
    Long down the shore third series test in derby. Dog A mine takes water but gets out early pinpoints the bird. Dog B swims entire channel gets out long puts on big hunt. I'm fairly new to this game but trying to better understand the rules and what we need to work on. What are judges looking for in this kind of setup? Straight line indicating courage? Marking is the primary importance? Trained vs natural abilities?

    Love to hear some experienced advice, thanks.
    Someone might complain because I'm not am "experienced field trialer" but I have been to the judging seminar more than once and a mark is a mark so...

    To answer your question in a little bit different way... The way I've always understood this is that...

    A mark (meaning the dog showed he knew where the bird was) with a perfect line is optimal.

    A mark with an imperfect line is sub-optimal but better than...

    A good/perfect line with no mark (dog obeys handler's line but doesn't know where the bird is).

    If someone wants to correct me - cool but I'm pretty sure that's an accurate interpretation.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 08-12-2019 at 10:06 AM.
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  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
    Again, that is a TRAINED response and NOT what the Derby is about.
    like it or not that is what’s expected in today derby dogs !!!!

    u don’t like it don’t play and don’t complain !!!!!

  10. #18
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    I think you are being generous. I think the majority of judges care about getting in the water and staying in the water - both in the minor and major stakes. I have seen plenty of judges ignore a mark in favor of a dog getting in the water - and staying in the water - to the extent of over swimming the mark by 50-100 yards and then returning to the bird.

    It is not how I judge, but it is what I see weekend after weekend
    What I see is it depends on the degree of the cheat. Reluctance to enter water and cover can be a legitimate factor in that call.
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  11. #19
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
    Again, that is a TRAINED response and NOT what the Derby is about.
    Never been big on this statement. There are a ton of trained responses included in the rule book. Steadiness, delivery, etc. it’s just not to the extent of major stakes.
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  12. #20
    Senior Member captainjack's Avatar
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    Natural Abilities
    From part II of the supplement to the standard procedure...

    (1) Accurate marking, or memory of “falls’’ is of paramount importance. However, this does not imply that dogs which excel in marking shall not be severely penalized, or even eliminated, for deficiencies in, or a lack of the other required “abilities.’’ However, in Derby stakes the ability to “mark’’ is all-important and dogs that are handled on a mark in a Derby Stake shall be eliminated....

    (7) Style is apparent in every movement of a dog and throughout his entire performance at trials, for example: by the gaiety of his manner in approaching the line, by his alertness on-line, by his eagerness and speed on retrieves, by his water-entry, by his pick-up of birds and by his return with them. Style makes for a pleasing performance; together with ability to mark, they constitute the most important factors for placings in Derby Stakes.
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