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Thread: Derby test design ?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjoiner View Post
    What I see is it depends on the degree of the cheat. Reluctance to enter water and cover can be a legitimate factor in that call.
    Not so much in the Derby.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
    And it is why someone should say to said judge, that is not right.

    As I mentioned earlier, the big problem with the trial game today is that the status quo is ok and it shouldn't be. We should be striving to better the game and not continue to let it swirl around the drain.

    if you see something that is wrong stand up and say something
    Or at a minimum don’t allow it when we hold the book.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Was there only one series and one mark in this derby?
    If there were more than one series, one mark, and two dogs the answer is always, it depends. Best to limit it as the op did for discussion purposes.
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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
    Not so much in the Derby.
    Under serious faults:
    2. Failure to enter either rough cover, water, ice, mud, or any other situation involving unpleasant or difficult “going’’ for the dog, after having been ordered to do so several times.

    Under moderate faults:
    3. Reluctance to enter rough cover, water, ice, mud or other situations involving unpleasant “going’’ for the dog.

    10. Going out of the way by land to a “fall,’’ to an excessive degree to avoid going into the water on a water retrieve.

    Under minor faults:
    1. Going out of its way by land, to an excessive degree, on the return from a water retrieve.

    None of these faults are limited to major stakes. For it to be mentioned in all levels of faults, the authors of the rule book must think it should be considered.
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  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjoiner View Post
    Under serious faults:
    2. Failure to enter either rough cover, water, ice, mud, or any other situation involving unpleasant or difficult “going’’ for the dog, after having been ordered to do so several times.

    Under moderate faults:
    3. Reluctance to enter rough cover, water, ice, mud or other situations involving unpleasant “going’’ for the dog.

    10. Going out of the way by land to a “fall,’’ to an excessive degree to avoid going into the water on a water retrieve.

    Under minor faults:
    1. Going out of its way by land, to an excessive degree, on the return from a water retrieve.

    None of these faults are limited to major stakes. For it to be mentioned in all levels of faults, the authors of the rule book must think it should be considered.
    While the faults are not segregated by stake, throughout the supplement to the standard it mentions different standards for trained abilities in the derby. For example it says a “reasonable degree of steadiness.” It also states that marking is all-important in the derby. In fact the supplement weights marking so heavily in the derby that handling on any mark requires the dog be eliminated. Finally the supplement tells the judges that marking and style are the most important factors when deciding placements.
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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjack View Post
    If there were more than one series, one mark, and two dogs the answer is always, it depends. Best to limit it as the op did for discussion purposes.
    So the op is saying the two dogs were identical in all other abilities up to that mark?
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    So the op is saying the two dogs were identical in all other abilities up to that mark?
    For the purpose of discussion, or rather to determine how he needs to prepare for derbies.
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  10. #38
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    Is not the ultimate priority of the judges to promote the betterment of the breed by awarding placements to the best dogs? And if so, which dog is best, the one who comes to the mat and recognizes a concept, or the one who marks well placed birds, with style? Fundamentally isn’t it that simple? Is anyone aware of changes to the rules saying the judging or testing philosophy has changed? Running under judges with the knowledge and skill to create separation with good bird placement, and who make callbacks and placements based on the rules and traditions of the sport, is a truly wonderful experience.
    "You've got to suffer!" - Gordon MacQuarrie



  11. #39
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjack View Post
    While the faults are not segregated by stake, throughout the supplement to the standard it mentions different standards for trained abilities in the derby. For example it says a “reasonable degree of steadiness.” It also states that marking is all-important in the derby. In fact the supplement weights marking so heavily in the derby that handling on any mark requires the dog be eliminated. Finally the supplement tells the judges that marking and style are the most important factors when deciding placements.
    I agree with that 100%; however, the faults should still be considered, maybe not weighted as heavy, but considered. I think you and I judge very similar. I like to let dogs in minors play if possible and reward the best marking dog. Usually around us there will be a derby dog do it perfect and and make the winner easy to pick.
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  12. #40
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    most don't want to look across the shiny wet stuff between the line and the bird anyways.

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