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Thread: Teaching Hold

  1. #21
    Senior Member Leddyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I was always under the assumption you are only teaching "Hold" ,Not "Carry"..

    You haven't the tool yet to "correct" if the dog drops before its told to.. You can only, simply, place the bumper back in dogs mouth.. (attrition)

    If the dog will grab bumper when told to "hold", holds it till you say "drop" (not "carry" it while walking)... then IMHO you are good..

    Some folks don't teach "Hold" they go straight to FF..
    That's how I've always done it. Teach hold and go straight to FF. In the Lardy videos he teaches hold and then has them heel while holding before FF so I have done that on a couple, but after this I think I'm going back to the old way. I haven't noticed any difference in FTP between the 2 so I'll just accept her hold (which is rock solid as long as I don't give another command) and move on. She's a really nice pup and I don't want to keep at this and hurt her attitude.

    ETA: Posted this before I read Darren's response so modify accordingly. I don't notice any difference in FTP, but if it makes it easier to go to the ground (which is usually a struggle for me) it would be worth it.
    Last edited by Leddyman; 11-13-2019 at 07:01 AM.
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  3. #22
    Senior Member Leddyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Try not giving the second command and just do the action gently. Her mind is just switching to focus on the next task which, when taught, didn't include the bumper. Work through getting her to take a step or two, or a few with good praise for walking and chewing gum, then build on from there.
    Thanks for the response Darren, I'll try this for one or two more days before I move on and see if I get anywhere.
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  4. #23
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I was always under the assumption you are only teaching "Hold" ,Not "Carry"..

    You haven't the tool yet to "correct" if the dog drops before its told to.. You can only, simply, place the bumper back in dogs mouth.. (attrition)

    If the dog will grab bumper when told to "hold", holds it till you say "drop" (not "carry" it while walking)... then IMHO you are good..

    Some folks don't teach "Hold" they go straight to FF..




    Agree.
    I do teach hold first and once the dog understands hold I will entice or just let him drop to introduce ear pinch and then go through that whole process.
    I also agree with Darrin that intro to pressure starts waaaay before FF or CC via leash and heeling stick when going through obedience. Hell light leash pressure can be learned by a 7 or 8 week old puppy. Actually it starts immediately when you bring the pup home. Pup starts to chew on a table leg, NO pull him away hold and praise. Pup starts to pee on the floor, grab him quick, no, take him outside, goood boy! It's called learning and there is always pressure involved with learning. They start learning right from wrong first thing. The pressure just changes and gets stronger as the pup ages and understands more.
    My next advice to anyone going through FF is forget the table. To me the table is for the person not the dog. In my opinion the table is most of the problem here. Perfect example of if you use the table you practically have to start over on the ground and teach the dog that the same thing applies here so why not skip that step. If you use the table they associate the lesson with the table and not the ground.
    As Gooser said when you first teach hold you are teaching HOLD NOT CARRY. Hold is one step carry is another so I think the pressure and fetch part should be in place as a tool before carry. Same principle applies through this whole process. Once the dog is responding well to ear pinch and lunging for the bumper it all kinda starts over again when asking them to fetch off the ground without your hand on the bumper. All the steps need to be in place and build upon each other and you cannot skip a step except for the table part. In my opinion the table is a completely unnecessary part of this process and just prolongs the whole thing. I dislike the FF table almost as much as I dislike ropes

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  6. #24
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I worked "carry" (or extended hold while walking) during the step of "walking fetch"...The method of walking fetch, was a bit different than Lardys, in that it needed two people,, but,, after the dog was commanded "fetch" and he picked up the bumper with purpose, I praised as we carried aways, then a "sit"and a delivery to hand..until we moved to next bumper,,and repeated the process..

    If the dog dropped the bumper as we walked, ear pinch was used to correct... As we worked through this step, the length of time dog "carried" would increase.. between bumpers..
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  7. #25
    Senior Member Leddyman's Avatar
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    Okay, so reporting back in. I tried what Darren said. I held the bumper in her mouth and got her moving by pulling on her collar. It seemed to be clicking much better. Much less of a struggle. Will continue for another day or two and then on to the dreaded ear pinch. Thanks for the replies everyone. Even the one who thinks I'm not following Lardy even though I said I was and this ain't my first rodeo. Every dog is different and this one was stuck here. It seems like we got her unstuck without using the boot. ;/>
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