A different hold problem

[DH]

Was just reading the hold thread below and hoping in would give me insight but it is clear my problem is different. My 9 month old BLM will hold all day walking around with me but the minute I say sit he drops it. When working on hold I started with him sitting and a hand on his collar and put the paint roller in his mouth saying hold. As soon as it goes in his but is off the ground, tail wagging excitement at a 9. He holds well, no rolling but as soon as I try to get him to sit the excitement goes off the chart and he drops it.

Doing retrieves he holds solid however he picked it up, mostly in the middle but if he grabs an end thats how he holds it until he gets to me no dropping unless I ask him to sit.

I've tried a lot of repetitions but I just can't get a hold an sit at the same time

I've been doing Hillman up to this point and his sit is very well conditioned but it is just one or the other, hold or sit.

Any thoughts? I've thought of going to ear pinch, although I was also considering Hillman's force fetch method but I'm guessing that debate is a separate thread.

DH

[Tim Carrion]

When working on hold I started with him sitting and a hand on his collar and put the paint roller in his mouth saying hold. As soon as it goes in his but is off the ground, ...

Any thoughts?

DH

Sounds like he does not really know what sit means and needs a strict review of obedience. This needs to be addressed before you can build retrieving skills of hold and fetch. Obedience regardless of his level of excitement must be maintained. Hold a heeling stick instead of his collar if butt comes up switch comes down then put the bumper back in his mouth

JMO

Tim

[Daren Galloway]

Move on to force fetch. Then you can really correct it, only reason for hold is so they can enjoy the success of a fetch during FF. Not important to their overall training.

[Final Flight Retrievers]

I agree move onto FF don’t nit-pick the small things...... move on !!!!!
best of luck !!!!

[MooseGooser]

JMHO... Before you move on to FF,,, make sure the dogs "sit" is solid.. You want a solid sit with a calm, in control dog.. again, jmho.

The "Sit" is more important than the hold..

[DarrinGreene]

Try some gentle upward pressure on his collar and maybe a little on the butt with the other hand WITHOUT giving the command. If you're a little patient and artful about it he'll more than likely get the idea. Add the word back WITHOUT PRESSURE AT FIRST once he gets the idea.

Be sure to take the object and praise when he gets it right!

He's trying to be a good boy. Don't get frustrated and start punishing him. He just doesn't understand.

You taught him to forget everything else he's doing and get his butt on the ground when you conditioned the sit command. He's doing exactly what you taught him in the previous steps. Be patient and work through the new context you created when you put the object in his mouth.

[Daren Galloway]

Try some gentle upward pressure on his collar and maybe a little on the butt with the other hand WITHOUT giving the command. If you're a little patient and artful about it he'll more than likely get the idea. Add the word back WITHOUT PRESSURE AT FIRST once he gets the idea.

Be sure to take the object and praise when he gets it right!

He's trying to be a good boy. Don't get frustrated and start punishing him. He just doesn't understand.

You taught him to forget everything else he's doing and get his butt on the ground when you conditioned the sit command. He's doing exactly what you taught him in the previous steps. Be patient and work through the new context you created when you put the object in his mouth.

Do you ever fix any problems? or do you only suggest only the most rudimentary basic bandaid possible?

[DarrinGreene]

Do you ever fix any problems? or do you only suggest only the most rudimentary basic bandaid possible?

You can take a man fishing or teach him to fish.

What I suggested isn't a band aid but rather, a small step toward understanding the dog in front of you.

When you reinforce a behavior thoroughly with pressure and then try later to modify it, some patience and understanding is only fair to the dog. After all, you told him he better hurry up and sit to avoid pressure. When you give the command his mind should singly focus on that task above all others.

Then you change it and expect him to flow seamlessly? If he doesn't you just go onto an even more pressurized exercise?

May work with a lab but try it with a Mal or a Bulldog and see what happens.

[MooseGooser]

Thinking back,, I guess Ive been fortunate in that all the dogs I have had, liked to carry objects. It started with "toys" when they were really young. (Weeks) I really encourged this and praised when they did it..

Once on a leash, and walking with me, I would take objects with us, and encourage them to carry those, eventually transferring over to a canvas puppy bumper..

So, I dont remember a dog stuggling with carrying at heel when we got to HOLD.. but, I didn't look at it with a very critical eye.. If the dog dropped it,, I just picked it up, and put it back in the dogs mouth, repeating this till I believed the dog had a good general idea what I wanted.. I didn't expect perfection..

Once Obedience commands were solid, especially "sit",, and the dog would "Hold" reasonably well,,and walk a short distance with a bumper in mouth,, we moved on to FF

I Believe now,,, you have to pick your battles... IMHO,,, if the dog will open its mouth,and hold a bumper for a period of time,but may struggle with holding it , after a command of sit,, or walking a ways,, I would pick my battle..

I still would make sure the dog "sit" is solid before you start FF.. Just makes things way easier, than having to wrestle the dog.. That additional activity only spins both dog and trainer up making for a more stressful atmosphere than FF already MAY be..


JMHO..

[Daren Galloway]

May work with a lab but try it with a Mal or a Bulldog and see what happens.

Are there a lot of Mal's and Bulldogs being force fetched on this forum?