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Thread: Automatic HT Fail: Dog touches me when returning to heel?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Marti View Post
    I have two dogs who sometimes are overly excited. Both will occasionally leap into the air and spin around when coming back to heel. When they spin in the air, they sometimes miscalculate distance and will touch me while coming down or when sitting.

    The HT rules in AKC say the handler can't touch the dog before taking the bird. Would it be an automatic fail if a dog does his leap and air spin and touches me on the way down before I take the bird?




    Read some but not all of this thread but my first thought is more solid obedience training. I would not let my dog return to heel that way but in my mind if it dose happen you didn't touch the dog the dog touched you. If there is an infraction it would be a lack of discipline and control not in touching the dog.

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  3. #22
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    I removed a large piece of grass from my dogs face while he was sitting at heel, seconds before i sent him on his second mark. After the test the judge told me to ask permission next time before i touched my dog because he could have failed me for it, HRC finish test.

  4. #23
    Senior Member djansma's Avatar
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    Section 11. In Senior and Master Hunting Tests, a handler shall not hold or touch a dog to keep it steady, or verbally restrain a dog on line, except in extraordinary circumstances, from the time the first bird is being thrown until the dog’s number is called. Violation of any of the provisions of this paragraph is sufficient cause to justify a grade of “0” in Trainability.
    The time you spend on earth with your dog is precious; enjoy it to your fullest

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  6. #24
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Steve posted
    Read some but not all of this thread but my first thought is more solid obedience training. I would not let my dog return to heel that way
    Taken together with Tobias' post I agree and think that's the way for J Marti to go forward.

    The classic way of squishing an unwanted behaviour is to train an incompatible behaviour on top of it ... hence the front delivery idea. There are others too. I don't believe doing this would affect the dog's enthusiasm one little bit.

    On a personal note I'm not a big fan of the formal side delivery anyway .... if I've got three (or sometimes four) dogs working in a hot corner there just isn't time for it, but no doubt HT judges don't see things my way!

    Eugene
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 12-26-2019 at 06:43 AM.
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  7. #25
    Senior Member T-Pines's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djansma View Post
    Section 11. In Senior and Master Hunting Tests, a handler shall not hold or touch a dog to keep it steady, or verbally restrain a dog on line, except in extraordinary circumstances, from the time the first bird is being thrown until the dog’s number is called. Violation of any of the provisions of this paragraph is sufficient cause to justify a grade of “0” in Trainability.
    You may not have read the entire thread, which is ok. But I would be interested to know how you interpret this paragraph, particularly as it applies to the judgement of the situation described in post #1 involving the delivery of a retrieved bird. Thanks.

  8. #26
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Shadow and I were failed in a HRC seasoned test for touching the dog. On the last retrieve of the day, I stopped Shadow in a front sit position and with hands on each side of the duck took it from him. Judge said I touched dog. I did not believe I did.
    While at a master test a judge cautioned me for almost touching Rowdy on return from a retrieve.
    So, what are the rules? I haven't seen anything that applies. Maybe the seminars and tests to become a judge should clear this up.
    Wayne Nutt
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    Castile Creeks Rawhide, MH "Rowdy"

  9. #27
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    It sounds as if at least a few Judges would benefit from being enlightened about this in a seminar, or as a question on the Judge's test. It seems there are examples of this rule/guideline being misinterpreted in all the various HT venues. But I have to say, if a Judge can READ, it really shouldn't be necessary. Pretty sad, actually.- Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  10. #28
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
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    Integrity, common sense and intelligence can't be taught at a seminar.
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  11. #29
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    Let’s say you have a dog with a snappy response to here and heel. You have such a dog because you are skilled with collar conditioning.

    Another person has a pig because they aren’t good with a collar.

    Let’s say the pig isn’t likely to touch you. Is the pig better trained than the snappy dog?

    I think it is more a perceived issue with gun safety, not discipline.

    I trained my dog to run and jump into me on a front finish to get a fun bumper. He wouldn’t be doing that at a hunt test or a trial because that is different situation, but he is more likely to bump into me sometime in his life.

    It is like people who let the dog put it’s paws on people. That isn’t exactly lack of training. I don’t let my dog ever do that but I don’t consider it lack of training if someone lets their dog put paws on people.

    All you got to do to train a dog not to do something like that is give the dog a smack. It isn’t high level training. To be fair to the dog there are better ways to do it than a smack.

    As a judge I can understand the reason for putting emphasis elsewhere. You would get more mileage from me quoting gun safety, unless I was at a field trial.

  12. #30
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    Granted not letting a behavior start and forceful enough to stop it Is more fair in the scheme of things. I just don’t see where personal house habits absolutely play into hunt tests .... but it is up the judges. If house habits are being judged it would a canine good citizen test .... but it is not.

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