Refusal
The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Wildear
Retriever Coach
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Refusal

  1. #1
    Senior Member 1tulip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    2,929

    Default Refusal

    The absolute nature of the rule regarding dogs who don't instantly move out on a blind when sent... just seems to take all leeway from the judges. Judges know when a dog doesn't want to go. And they can tell if the handler has done a swell job of confusing a dog who is in "launch position" ready to go get the blind. And they also can tell how much to penalize the dog/handler team for a re-send.

    Where am I going wrong?
    Magister venator aliquando si deus vult

  2. Remove Advertisements
    RetrieverTraining.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    444

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1tulip View Post
    The absolute nature of the rule regarding dogs who don't instantly move out on a blind when sent... just seems to take all leeway from the judges. Judges know when a dog doesn't want to go. And they can tell if the handler has done a swell job of confusing a dog who is in "launch position" ready to go get the blind. And they also can tell how much to penalize the dog/handler team for a re-send.

    Where am I going wrong?
    Where are you going wrong with what? I’m not following.

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anywhere we want, USA
    Posts
    4,687

    Default

    Two mothers are watching a parade. As the High School marching band approaches, one mother exclaims: "Will you look at that! Everyone is out of step except for my little Johnny!" -Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    RetrieverTraining.net
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,256

    Default

    Not sure I follow either. If the OP is suggesting leniency for no goes on blinds, I vote no.
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

  7. #5
    Senior Member Sabireley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Culpeper VA
    Posts
    1,516

    Default

    The rule book is very clear about no-goes on blinds and that’s fine. The dog is out.

    The rule book is less clear about no goes on marks. It’s covered under style (reluctant departure), lack of perseverance or courage, and returning without a bird, with an allowance for confusion as to whether the dog knew it was sent. There is really no categorization for seriousness of the fault except returning without a bird.

    So, how do you judge no-goes on marks? Say the birds go down, the handler says the dog’s name and it does not go. The handler says the dogs name and it goes out 10 yards and comes back. The dog is sent again and it goes with style and drills the mark. Is the dog out, do you ding it for style, courage, perseverance, did it return without the bird, is it a handle, do you always give the benefit of the doubt and call it confusion? Can you place this dog if all other work was worthy of a placement?

  8. #6
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Two mothers are watching a parade. As the High School marching band approaches, one mother exclaims: "Will you look at that! Everyone is out of step except for my little Johnny!" -Paul
    hahahaha! That is great!
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

  9. #7
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1tulip View Post
    The absolute nature of the rule regarding dogs who don't instantly move out on a blind when sent... just seems to take all leeway from the judges. Judges know when a dog doesn't want to go. And they can tell if the handler has done a swell job of confusing a dog who is in "launch position" ready to go get the blind. And they also can tell how much to penalize the dog/handler team for a re-send.

    Where am I going wrong?
    I think it makes it easier for judges. It is a clear rule - cut and dry - one I agree with. Things would be much easier if the same rule was applied to marks.
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

  10. #8
    Senior Member Don Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Johnstown, OH
    Posts
    1,288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Two mothers are watching a parade. As the High School marching band approaches, one mother exclaims: "Will you look at that! Everyone is out of step except for my little Johnny!" -Paul
    Laughing is good for one's well-being. Thank you for providing me my first good laugh of the day, Paul. (And I agree with the rule on no-gos on blinds. I've seen judges be as lenient as they can given the rule, even allowing another send if the dog just moves a foot forward. But, it they're frozen or even move backward, there's a problem - and, yes, I've had it happen to me. Fortunately, usually only in training; very, very rarely in tests).
    HRCH Meglyn's Maramaxx Daisycutter MH-30 (Daisy)
    SHR Meglyn's Eye on the Prize JH (Molly)
    Meglyn's Timbrhuntn ValleyGirl (Lilly)
    Meglyn's Prime Time to Leave Me Lucille SH (Lucy)
    Meglyn's Lionheart MH (Little Guy)
    Meglyn-Firemark's I am NOT a Lab SH (Goldie)
    Meglyn's Lil Miss Sureshot SH CGCA(Annie)
    In memory of Chevy, HR Meglyn's Silverado Slim SH, July 20, 2006, HR Meglyn's Blue Ridge Belle MH, July 19, 2008 and HRCH Meglyn's Honest Abe MH, Aug 9, 2013.

    www.meglynretrievers.com

  11. #9
    Senior Member Daren Galloway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    1,065

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I think it makes it easier for judges. It is a clear rule - cut and dry - one I agree with. Things would be much easier if the same rule was applied to marks.
    Easier, maybe. Fair to the dog, no.
    Daren Galloway

    FTCH AFTCH HRCH Hank's Settin' The Marsh On Fire

  12. #10
    Senior Member big trax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    195

    Default

    I hated the rule once...throughout the long drive home after it cost me a master pass. I had one of 7 dogs in a full flight pick up a gnarly first series clean and had the only clean dog going to the third. The judges felt sorry for us I guess and set up a little double and a dumpy 45 yard blind for the third series. I had three dogs make it to the third and the one who was clean had been training for Q's all summer and is very fast. I was trying to cue her that the blind is not across the pond through the woods and across the vale and sent her with a very soft back. She flinched forward but didn't go. I said back in my normal volume and she lined the blind. The judges approached me and told me they had to drop her as there is no confusion on a blind and one even said- it was obviously confusion and that he hated it, but that is the rule.

    I was really upset with the judges for dropping her but I didn't voice it to them- just to my wife on the drive home lol. She got tired of listening to me and fell asleep and I had a long time to reflect. It was my fault 100%. I still don't like the rule, but I don't intend to let it bite me that way again.
    "The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail and not his tongue." - Author Unknown

    HRCH Big Trax Candlewood's Katie Bar the Door MH "Kate"
    HRCH Big Trax Queen of Spades MH "Spade"
    Big Trax Gump's off Running "Chunk" RIP 12-30-15 - 07-25-17
    HRCH Big Trax Angels Among Us "Lucy"
    Big Trax Grady's Wild Card "Joker"
    Big Trax Little Rascal "Darla"
    Big Trax Drive Thru Delight "Tater"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •