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Thread: Hunting Retriever Training

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shaver View Post
    Really? What would that be for??
    Throw the stones where the bird has fallen so the dog can retrieve it.
    Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    I think you'll find Milner or Wildrose are similar to a degree to what you're asking Hugh. Polmaise and Eugene may be of some assistance also, as I don't think either one uses those techniques (could be wrong).

    Look up Christopher Upton from the UK also.
    Darrin Greene

  4. #23
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    Throw the stones where the bird has fallen so the dog can retrieve it.
    Carrying a bunch of rocks along hunting sounds a lot harder than just teaching blind retrieves.
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

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  6. #24
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenpoacher View Post
    Carrying a bunch of rocks along hunting sounds a lot harder than just teaching blind retrieves.
    I always thought that was the "dirt clod drill" in training..

    I figgered the ritzy Field Trialers had enough money to use Rocks! ( and could afford to drink coffee, so theys always had cans..)

    There USE to be a LOT to learn here..

    Sense of humor was one of them..
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 01-11-2020 at 06:16 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
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    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
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  7. #25
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Just my Opinion:

    A dog that can reliable Mark and retrieve doubles from distances between 35 to 80 yards,,and can run a simple blind ,taking correct casts to get the dog downwind of where a bird fell,, is all the Hunting dog you need..

    What is nice to have is a compliant dog.. A dog that is comfortable sitting queitly in a blind,and when sent for a mark,,,,MARKS… and when handled takes casts reasonably well..

    A Reliable Senior/Seasoned level dog fits that bill just fine..

    The training involved to getting a dog to that level, imho, would be a dog just into transition.. all steps before this is the same no matter what final goals you have..

    For a hunting dog,, Solid obedience is a must.. (Its the first step in BASICS) It makes your day afield more of a pleasure..

    COMPLIANT... in the Uplands consists of staying in gun range, has a deliberate dedicated hunt attitude, and quarters in front.. When the bird flushes,,dog will Sit" and is steady till sent to retrieve..

    Most any program will get you there... I personally,, would look close at Hillmann.. He does use the collar, and he FF's,, but,, his methods are different..

    Again,,, JMHO
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 01-11-2020 at 07:20 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    HRCH FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet MH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  8. #26
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    There USE to be a LOT to learn here..

    Sense of humor was one of them..
    Amen brother!
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

  9. #27
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Darrin posted
    I think you'll find Milner or Wildrose are similar to a degree to what you're asking Hugh. Polmaise and Eugene may be of some assistance also, as I don't think either one uses those techniques (could be wrong). Look up Christopher Upton from the UK also.
    Well, you asked for it.

    Robert is very much a trail blazer for the "positive only" movement and relies a good deal on clicker. Nothing wrong with that, but it's more of a philosophical change in approach than I think Hugh may be looking for, and it needs some study, not least in the correct use of clicker which is a skill no easier to acquire than correct use of the collar. I'd be quite happy to follow Robert, but then I've travelled the road before; even so I use some aversives as and when.

    Wildrose is distinctly weak on the basic OB tasks, (having said that so IMO are some of the collar based schemes, notably Strawsky) but the rest of it is pretty good, quite inventive, and includes a sort of FF Lite without the collar. Mind where you step with the marketing shoite.

    Some years ago I was an overseas member of The American Hunting Dog Club; their publication "Training the Sporting Dog" is an excellent, comprehensive work, very strong on reviewing the progress of both dog and handler, so it might well suit Hugh's needs. Non collar (and quite keen not to be,) FF is shown via ear pinch, and obviously the whole thing is directed at US style hunting. The chapter on dog aggression is .... well, a chapter on dog aggression

    Vic Barlow's book and Martin Deeley's are useful; Deeley's the better of the two.

    Upton is not recommended.

    You'd probably get the lot for $120, but if I was doing the job barebones, I'd go AHDC and Wildrose, deciding as I go along if FF is needed for that particular dog. The Lardy flow chart is nice to have alongside and has the inestimable virtue of being free and fer nuffink.
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 01-12-2020 at 05:38 AM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

  10. #28
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Thanks ALL!!

    The time isn't here yet, but I don't think we have more than a very few weeks. King doesn't seem to be in discomfort, but is sleeping much more and, although he asks me to throw the toy at the regular times, he is only interested in one or two retrieves at a time and the wants to rest.

    I've been to Robert Milner's Website and downloaded the free book "Absolutely Positively Gundog Training". Have been reading the beginning. I find it pretty interesting, but find this:

    Pick a Dog That Fits

    A FRIEND OF MINE ONCE told me, “If you want to train a good duck-dog, then start with a good dog.” He was right. I would add to that, “Start with a good dog that fits you.” The retriever that fits most duck hunters is smart, easy to train, and pleasant to have around the house, and gets all the ducks.
    The duck hunter needs a smart, easy-to-train dog, because most are not looking for a second job as a dog trainer. The duck hunter needs a pleasant-to-have- around dog, because most of the dog’s time is spent being a companion and a family dog. Additionally, he needs a dog that sits quietly in the blind when the birds are working and the guns are shooting.
    All retrievers don’t possess the attributes of a great gundog. They come in a great variety of personality types. Important differences are those concerning drive and game-finding initiative, demeanor and personality, intelligence and trainability, and natural delivery to hand. As I describe these traits, I will tell you how to measure and evaluate a dog relative to these attributes. The measurement exercises are valid for dogs that are nine months and older and at least “partially trained” with the exception of the delivery-to-hand trait. Here are some ways of looking at a started or trained dog or the parents of a litter you are considering.

    pretty frightening, esp. the underlined part. By the time traits that are not a good fit show up, the dog is probably already in our hearts. We fall in love pretty quickly around here.






    My best advice would be to start with good breeding and I would go with a good field trial pedigree also. Generally with this type of breeding you get the most import thing, BRAINS. I wouldn't fall into the trap of that's too much dog for me. My dogs come from a pedigree with the reputation of being one of the most high powered crazy lines there is and they are perfect sweethearts around the house and in the blind. I think craziness is mostly an environmental thing, they are what you make them. I also would train by one of the better field trial type methods Just omit the collar part. I personally would avoid stuff like clicker training and all positive crap. I would however not skip force fetch, probably the most important thing you could do. Force fetch in my opinion is a very advance form of obedience and puts the icing on the cake during basics and sets the stage for more advance training. It turns a puppy into a dog.

  11. #29
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
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    Beautifully "Villa-fied," Eug, if "Vanilla icing-ified" - especially the plug for the good ol' AHDC manifesto. Lastly, Mr. Atkinson and moi were recently jawing over the lack of lament in certain quarters at Martin Deeley's passing - good lad for our game, whomever "our'n" might be.

    Away for a little purely positive winter water ballet with the goils - no St. John's Lifeboatmen needed on a "wintry" day like this'n on the Seaboard -

    Cheers, and Up the Albion with Slavo!

    MG

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    Darrin posted Well, you asked for it.

    Robert is very much a trail blazer for the "positive only" movement and relies a good deal on clicker. Nothing wrong with that, but it's more of a philosophical change in approach than I think Hugh may be looking for, and it needs some study, not least in the correct use of clicker which is a skill no easier to acquire than correct use of the collar. I'd be quite happy to follow Robert, but then I've travelled the road before; even so I use some aversives as and when.

    Wildrose is distinctly weak on the basic OB tasks, (having said that so IMO are some of the collar based schemes, notably Strawsky) but the rest of it is pretty good, quite inventive, and includes a sort of FF Lite without the collar. Mind where you step with the marketing shoite.

    Some years ago I was an overseas member of The American Hunting Dog Club; their publication "Training the Sporting Dog" is an excellent, comprehensive work, very strong on reviewing the progress of both dog and handler, so it might well suit Hugh's needs. Non collar (and quite keen not to be,) FF is shown via ear pinch, and obviously the whole thing is directed at US style hunting. The chapter on dog aggression is .... well, a chapter on dog aggression

    Vic Barlow's book and Martin Deeley's are useful; Deeley's the better of the two.

    Upton is not recommended.

    You'd probably get the lot for $120, but if I was doing the job barebones, I'd go AHDC and Wildrose, deciding as I go along if FF is needed for that particular dog. The Lardy flow chart is nice to have alongside and has the inestimable virtue of being free and fer nuffink.

  12. #30
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Mike,

    Good man Yerself!

    We were guests at the Wolves yesterday, met Nuno and a few of the players .... The Management presented the Man of The Match award to Dendonker; I think she quite fancied him!

    Poor game, Wolves were are long way short of their best. I tried to heave another cabbage at Steve Bruce but a steward said he was already fixed up for Sunday lunch.

    Hope to see you guys next year but not in the Championship.

    Ian Openshaw reckoned that Martin was the only man he'd ever met that could talk under water; only met him briefly at a Game Fair, but thought he was the genuine article.

    Eugene
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 01-12-2020 at 09:03 AM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

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