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Thread: Hunting Retriever Training

  1. #41
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Have been reading a fair amount over the last week and came across this as a partial counterpoint to your position: (Emphasis mine.)

    It's often said that force fetch, and by proxy field trials (at least in the retriever world), is responsible for changing the disposition of the Labrador retriever. The contention is that force fetch, via training methodologies and breeding based upon trial success, has created a Lab that's too high powered, too hard headed, and too much dog for the average gun dog owner. The idea is that now the tail is wagging the dog, so to speak, and that continual breeding of dogs that could withstand the pressure of force fetch and the demands of high-stakes field trials has created a modern-day Labrador that now has to be force fetched; a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Hugh






    This type of statement is made by someone that has no clue about the FF process. It doesn't have to be ugly or nasty. When I first heard of FF I thought if you had to force a lab to fetch you might as well get rid of him. I had no clue what is was about. Now I will FF every dog I own whether it is hard headed and stubborn or a soft shy marshmallow. It's not the scary mystical thing some make it out to be. It is simply a very advanced form of obedience. As for the collar I used to call people that used the collar cheaters and thought collar trained dogs should not be allowed in competition. Got in trouble on the old Working Retriever Central website for such statements and someone steered me here. I since have learned about the collar and use it but I also need good control at 300 yds for trial training. I still say for a one dog guy training to hunt the collar is not necessary but I would still FF.

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  3. #42
    Senior Member labsforme's Avatar
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    I use the same programs, basically Carr based, as my trial dogs because they ARE my trial dogs. I want the tools needed to get the job done. Think about times birds go sailing.Also sit means sit. Same basics, same upper level training.

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  4. #43
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    I have seen a lot of people try Cornerstone Gun Dog. I personally have not.

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  6. #44
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Have been reading a fair amount over the last week and came across this as a partial counterpoint to your position: (Emphasis mine.)

    It's often said that force fetch, and by proxy field trials (at least in the retriever world), is responsible for changing the disposition of the Labrador retriever. The contention is that force fetch, via training methodologies and breeding based upon trial success, has created a Lab that's too high powered, too hard headed, and too much dog for the average gun dog owner. The idea is that now the tail is wagging the dog, so to speak, and that continual breeding of dogs that could withstand the pressure of force fetch and the demands of high-stakes field trials has created a modern-day Labrador that now has to be force fetched; a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Hugh
    I think you've been around long enough not to drink that Kool Aide.

    It actually makes no sense (as is the case with most blanket assertions).

    I think that's a quote from Milner or one of the other English lab breeders. It plays to people who have already decided a "field trial" dog wouldn't make a good companion. The guy who "just wants a hunting dog" and a family companion.

    If you want a pup that's not an absolute maniac, that's pretty easy. Just ask the breeder you select to give you a middle of the road pup instead of the hardest charger in the litter. An experienced person will match you to a suitable puppy.

    To say that force fetch and field trial breedings are the root cause of dogs that are ill suited for life in the home is preposterous. It's just not true.

    My day in day out job revolves in large part in making the "incompatible" dog compatible to life in a home, where they get absolutely no work or outlet for their natural desires. I do it with dogs far more difficult than the average FT bred lab. Yes, there are some over the top candidates more suited to a duck club or pro truck (I own one) but the average FT lab from everything I've ever seen isn't really the problem they are making it out to be.

    I think some of the more experienced RTF'rs will agree.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 01-17-2020 at 07:59 AM.
    Darrin Greene

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