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Thread: Gen Flynn's conviction

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Eric must be getting his info from Radio Sputnik. Protected by Free Speech, Radio Sputnik is now being carried by several U S Radio stations in rural America as well as being available via stream.

    Sputnik is a news agency, news website platform and radio broadcast service established by the Russian government-owned news agency Rossiya Segodnya. Headquartered in Moscow, Sputnik has regional editorial offices in Washington, D.C., Cairo, Beijing, Paris, Berlin, London, India and Edinburgh.

    This is on top of the 1 BILLION disinformation campaign designed to help Trump's reelection. This is the sort of thing that happens when we have a large portion of the electorate that has been dumbed down. We are losing our Republic bit by bit enabled by those that either don't care or don't know any better!
    Back to Russia, Russia, Russia?? Keep going down the rabbit hole, puppet.

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  3. #12
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    However, not Mirandizing a person means that any statement that they give may not be used in a trial. True?
    Eric

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  4. #13
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    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    However, not Mirandizing a person means that any statement that they give may not be used in a trial. True?
    No, not necessarily. In fact making it seem like Flynn was not the target of the investigation, only plays to the FBI's favor in determining if Miranda was needed.
    Last edited by mngundog; 02-17-2020 at 05:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    "Failing to Provide a Miranda Warning
    If the police fail to make you aware of your Miranda rights, nothing said in response to police questioning during a custodial interrogation can be used against you in court. In addition, any evidence that is derived from that improper custodial interrogation is also inadmissible.
    For instance, if the police fail to make you aware of your Miranda rights and questioning you leads them to a murder weapon, that weapon and the contents of that interrogation are both inadmissible unless they can show that they would have found the weapon without your statements."

    This is a bad example, it can actually fall under the public safety exception to Miranda, New York v. Quarles

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    "Failing to Provide a Miranda Warning
    If the police fail to make you aware of your Miranda rights, nothing said in response to police questioning during a custodial interrogation can be used against you in court. In addition, any evidence that is derived from that improper custodial interrogation is also inadmissible.
    For instance, if the police fail to make you aware of your Miranda rights and questioning you leads them to a murder weapon, that weapon and the contents of that interrogation are both inadmissible unless they can show that they would have found the weapon without your statements."

    This is a bad example, it can actually fall under the public safety exception to Miranda, New York v. Quarles
    Bold in red is the salient part of all of this. You can be questioned in a non-custodial situation and they don't have to Mirandize you. It is important to ask if you are free to go before answering any questions. If you are free to go, go, don't answer the questions if you feel that they could possibly in any way put you at risk. If you are not free to go, and haven't been Mirandized, go ahead and talk, they shouldn't be able to use what you say or anything that stems from it.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Bold in red is the salient part of all of this. You can be questioned in a non-custodial situation and they don't have to Mirandize you. It is important to ask if you are free to go before answering any questions. If you are free to go, go, don't answer the questions if you feel that they could possibly in any way put you at risk. If you are not free to go, and haven't been Mirandized, go ahead and talk, they shouldn't be able to use what you say or anything that stems from it.
    New York v Quarles, suspect was handcuffed (not free to go), questioned without Miranda, lower courts suppressed the statements, the Supreme Court overturned their ruling. Also statements made after arrest and prior to Miranda can be used in court to impeach you.
    Last edited by mngundog; 02-17-2020 at 11:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    New York v Quarles, suspect was handcuffed (not free to go), questioned without Miranda, lower courts suppressed the statements, the Supreme Court overturned their ruling. Also statements made after arrest and prior to Miranda can be used in court to impeach you.

    So, the real lesson is "don't talk" if you may have anything for which you could be charged, period.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

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  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    The information in that interview may be compromised, as well as information gained after the fact. But the information gained during the interview, may not be needed at all to prosecute the case, so not Mirandizing someone isn't cause for a new trial. A simply example would be an assault caught on camera or witnessed, if police made the mistake of interviewing the assailant in a custodial setting and he admitted to the assault, that statement would be inadmissible, however you'd still prosecute the case given the other evidence. And of coarse there are exceptions to Miranda. So no Miranda isn't everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    One of the charges against Gen. Flynn is "lying to the FBI". I think that there was only the interview of him that was covered by the 302.

    I can think of at least 3 copies of records that existed for every patient that I treated and at leas as many of 6 copies of most patients I treated. Given an interview of one serving the President, I would expect there to be at least 5 copies and as many as 10 copies of a 302 concerning such an interview. While you call this loss as a "compromise", I think a rational person, especially a juror, would call this a "distruction" of critical evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    So, the real lesson is "don't talk" if you may have anything for which you could be charged, period.
    HPL, the difficulty with Miranda Rights, is that there are many different situations that require jdgement as to when Miranda must be given. Take for example, a murder suspect, driving 100 MPH with officers chasing him and he wrecks. When theydrag him out of the car, they had better Marandize him before he says anything. They run the risk if they don't.

    As I understand it, the 302 is required and there is a very logical reason. It is a timely summary of what questions were asked and what answers were given. It is used to determine if a crime(such as lying) has been committed and also to REFRESH the memory of the agents in the event of a trial. In the event that there was a belief that one lied to an FBI agent, a prosecuting attorney would want to read the 302, as it is the most accurate and timely statement of the interview. Mngundog casually describes the missing 302 as it being "compromised". It is hard to believe that the initial attorneys for Gen. Flynn did not demand a copy before advising him to plead guilty to lying to the FBI. Where is the proof that he lied about anything??

    If one wants to know how important records can be, I never deleted a record, or marked out or whited out any entry. Sure, mistakes are made and when they were, I simply drew one line through the part that was in error and made the correction. If an explanation was necessary, I also made that entry. What was important was that all could be clearly read. Really not hard to do but critical to maintain creditability in records kept. I think if one is to be imprisoned based on these records, calling them "compromised" is balony. The fact that it is "compromised(missing) would force me to lose creditability in all involved.

    Let me add that there have been claims that a statement by Gen. Flynn and an opinion stated by the interviewing FBI agents are exculpatory and the 302 should have ben turned over to the defense attorneys. It is also claimed that he has also been offered a recomendation that the sentence be "Time Served", yet he is asking that the guilty plea be voided. We will see how this turns out.

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    HPL, the difficulty with Miranda Rights, is that there are many different situations that require jdgement as to when Miranda must be given. Take for example, a murder suspect, driving 100 MPH with officers chasing him and he wrecks. When theydrag him out of the car, they had better Marandize him before he says anything. They run the risk if they don't.
    Why wouldn't you allow them to volunteer unprompted information?

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