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Thread: one flyer in Master tests or Qualifying tests

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    OK So I'm not a judge but if you have the money and time to campaign a dog at either level, you have the $20/dog to pay for the second bird. Clubs just need to increase the price and be done.

    This idea what we have to worry about entry fees when most people roll up in $60,000 - $120,000 rigs is ridiculous.
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  3. #22
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    Mark,

    Do the clubs in your area sponsor 3 day Master tests? if so, how are the birds managed to have good ones for what is typically a water test on the third day of the test if no fliers are shot? Do you gas a bunch that morning? If the test started with 90 to 100 dogs on day one, you are probably looking at 30-50 running what is most likely a triple in the final test. - Paul
    Last edited by paul young; 03-03-2020 at 07:03 AM.
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  4. #23
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    Almost 100% of my experience is at the Cattle Ranch. We are blessed to have refrigeration to store the birds at night. For 3 day Masters, there is a coordinated effort to "stockpile" fresh shot flyers. These ducks are put aside and taken to refrigeration ASAP. On day 2 the birds from the minor stakes are added to the mix. Typically, the ducks are still in decent shape. When they are not, we kill ducks with alcohol and a needle.

    Ducks are "culled" after every series. Dried with fans and refrigerated overnight. Culled again that morning when separated for the flights. Judges also cull. Seems to work OK.
    Last edited by fishduck; 03-03-2020 at 10:50 AM. Reason: grammar
    Mark Land

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  6. #24
    Senior Member Peter Balzer's Avatar
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    I am new to judging so from that perspective I will defer to more seasoned individuals.

    However, I shoot/throw live birds in 4-6 events a year probably because I'm young and have a strong arm and decent shot. For a field trial I think having 2 flyers available is nice but not always needed. For a Jr/Sr test I think its inefficient and costly. In Master i think its 50/50 on whether its useful or wasteful of volunteer help and time.

    Biggest complaint from me at the flyer station is attempting to get a solid flyer into the wind. Seems about 1/3 of the time this is what ends up happening.

    My most enjoyable gunning experiences were in a 1st series senior hunt test where we got to throw with a quartering away wind, 30-33 dogs entered that day and my arm was fresh. I threw monster flyers that, on average, landed 35 yards away. Bigfun. Then there an Open with about 70ish dogs. Throwing into a big field, great birds, and two good buddies. Perfection wasn't the goal it was get it up and get it out, and boy did we.
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  7. #25
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    I prefer mulitple flyers, the main reason I think we are seeing less of them in HT is the 66 90 100 dog master stake. Flyers are fun but flyers take time, no birds are costly time-wise and MH judges are doing everything they can to finish on time. Not sure why this would be affecting the Qual? My theory on that would be FT like marks to be very consistent so they can fairly place dogs. A qual usually only has 2 marking series if you have a flyer in each one your putting out a lot of inconsistency for grading the "Primarily important" marking aspect. One flyer goes long, One flyer goes short, one flyer lands white belly up flapping another one land in a bush. How does a judge rank dogs when every mark is different? I see this somewhat in HT when you have multiple flyers in the lower stakes. SH only has 2 marking series, I like to see if the dogs can mark a double while eliminating the distractions -inconsistencies that can be associated with a flyer. In a HT your not ranking dogs, but when grading a test it's always nice to have some consistency.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 03-03-2020 at 12:33 PM.
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  8. #26
    Senior Member red devil's Avatar
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    Not only does the club need to have throwers/shooters who know what they are doing. Judges should also know what is possible with a flyer. Asking shooters to drop every bird in a circle 10 ft in circumference into a 20 mph wind is asking for trouble. Maybe need to have a further judges' qualification - licensed to throw flyers! We could put an asterisk after the judges' number. Joking everyone, joking (sort of).

    And Peter Balzer, if you are ever interested in joining Wis. Amateur Field Trial Club I can assure you there is a place and a warm welcome for you
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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    Almost 100% of my experience is at the Cattle Ranch. We are blessed to have refrigeration to store the birds at night. For 3 day Masters, there is a coordinated effort to "stockpile" fresh shot flyers. These ducks are put aside and taken to refrigeration ASAP. On day 2 the birds from the minor stakes are added to the mix. Typically, the ducks are still in decent shape. When they are not, we kill ducks with alcohol and a needle.

    Ducks are "culled" after every series. Dried with fans and refrigerated overnight. Culled again that morning when separated for the flights. Judges also cull. Seems to work OK.

    Thanks for the reply, Mark. Nice to have refrigeration available. That would make a big difference in bird quality. -Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    I believe it is improper to criticize a judge about his test on this forum. Itís unsportsmanlike behavior and should not be done. If you donít judge shut your mouth. If you donít belong to a club and donít work you have no right to question anything.
    The Minion (aka Inspector Clouseau),, weighs in. Interestingly enough, you publically accused certain field trialers of unsportsmanlike conduct on this forum a few months ago, hence your Inspector Clouseau moniker. I'd like to think of you as Marty Feldman, as you see things from one eyed blind...tin foil hat and all.

    So Marty, check EE and contact clubs to see if I've worked any events. Oh, and I do chair tests so does that mean I can have an opinion? You are a piece of work.

    Finally, please tell me to shut my mouth, face to face, when I see you up North in a couple of months.

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    I agree. It is a hard and largely thankless job to judge. If you have a complaint, it is easy enough to describe your issue in a hypothetical scenario without naming names.
    I respect your opinion Ted, but on this one I will respectfully disagree. Too often, hypotheticals turn into a quagmire of should of, could of, maybe's. My statement was 100 percent accurate. Anyone who was there would attest to those facts. I've got nothing else to say.

  12. #30
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    Mike I’ve worked enough hunt tests to watch you take free flyers as test dog when members should have been test dog. I watched you numerous times hold up a stake only to be located BS with your clients. I have belonged and worked several clubs and have never seen you work other then to lift the cooler at the judges station. As for judging I have never seen you judge a hunt test. You were fortunate to run under a very good judge who has great respect for the dog and does everything in his power to set up and judge a fair test.
    Great Mike I guess you’ll volunteer to throw birds for Shoreline and Colonials hunt test. Thanks for volunteering.
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