Water Cheater
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Thread: Water Cheater

  1. #1
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Default Water Cheater

    Tips to get a big boy to get into cold water and get his fluffies wet?

    Been "semi" working on it, same old "in training, dog will not step out of line" go to a test dog decides he can go around and get the bird. Problem is Usually; he is right, fastest water cheat I've ever seen, but pin-point the bird and brings it back.

    Double test weekend first test he was OK, the longest mark =big cheat; practically knocked 2 separate gunners over. Other 2 shorter birds took water (big cheat = last mark). Unfortunately water was very scarce so couldn't reinforce for the next day. Did do a bit of play retrieve; no collar (at test people frown on that ) take water as your supposed to (he was all good with that)

    Fortunately or unfortunately (not sure which) this last test judges put on something in deep cover he cheated got over there couldn't find the bird " I'm talking 1-2 ft. but with the cover couldn't find it" he "Panicked". Proceeded to run back to me, got to about 20 yards, turned and took the correct line though the water to the bird. Cheated the next mark, couldn't find it; same thing returned took right line. Last mark took the water, guess he had enough. Strangest thing I've ever seen.

    I know everyone would be asking. Why choose to watch this and not just correct it test or not. Pretty much just seeing what he would actually do (akin to watching a car wreck). So I could figure how to setup a trap in training. HRC Test we get our birds anyways. Had them plant the blind, he thought about cheating, but we have a no-nonsince pressured over "OVER", in our arsenal. If I handle he will take water, but handling on marks is a no-go (if one wishes to continue on)

    I'm thinking no more tests, and more deep water work. At this point the Boy will most likely not see another land mark until Armageddon. But open to ideas, I've trained a couple of dogs, enough to know that sometimes you forget to do things, you should've early on. Also my first boy, they are different, and everyone says (easier >cough none of my girls ever worried about water above the fluffy line)

    Got to Love these first tests of the season.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 03-11-2020 at 12:23 AM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"; "I train dogs, Not papers"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned; early or late it still needs to be learned"

    GMHR HRCH Lakota MH (Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Storm MH (Upland/ Waterfowl Enthusiast)
    HR Banshi (problem child #3) - HR Trap (male-chocolate he's "special")

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  3. #2
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    I agree no tests. Unless you are willing to stop and pick him up for cheating. But that's a waste of time and money.

    I have a pretty "watery" dog and she will still sometimes cut a corner. I would go back and fix it this spring. I would still throw land marks.

    Go back to swim by as a refresher. Establish the standard and hold him to it in all circumstances.

    Make the marks very black and white and fair. Don't go out and demand a line 2' from the corner of a point.

  4. #3
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post

    Fortunately or unfortunately (not sure which) this last test judges put on something in deep cover he cheated got over there couldn't find the bird " I'm talking 1-2 ft. but with the cover couldn't find it" he "Panicked". Proceeded to run back to me, got to about 20 yards, turned and took the correct line though the water to the bird. Cheated the next mark, couldn't find it; same thing returned took right line. Last mark took the water, guess he had enough. Strangest thing I've ever seen.
    He seems to have taught himself a pretty good lesson there. He did it right the last time because that's how he won the first two times.

    Sounds like a teach, teach, teach thing. Maybe a little indirect pressure while on land and cheating would help the communication, assuming he leaves the line via land.

    If he makes the decision in route, light indirect pressure at the time of the decision seems appropriate (and it's the "standard" procedure).

    I'm talking LIGHT pressure. Not a huge correction. Just a little something to help you communicate.

    Basic dog training - make it clear to him in whatever way is most effective.
    Darrin Greene

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    People stink at water decheating. You know in theory if a dog is running a bank on a return, all you would need to do is take a few steps off the parallel of the bank and say here to get the dog in the water. Nobody can do that.

    People truly stink at it. I stink at parts of it but I wouldn’t be asking for tips. I stink at plenty but asking for tips on water decheating sounds like a recipe for a lifetime of hollar fest to me.

  7. #5
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    People stink in general at communicating with dogs. Water cheating isn't any different than anything else lol
    Darrin Greene

  8. #6
    Senior Member Daren Galloway's Avatar
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    The deterrent to not cheat hasn't overcome his desire to cheat.
    Daren Galloway

    FTCH AFTCH HRCH Hank's Settin' The Marsh On Fire

  9. #7
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Is "Swim by" a thing?

    https://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/rj11.html



    Do a search on "Swim by."
    Good luck!
    Last edited by road kill; 03-12-2020 at 08:39 AM.
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  10. #8
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    how/what does he do on water blinds on the initial entry?
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

  11. #9
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    how/what does he do on water blinds on the initial entry?
    Run fast to the water, slows on entry (@ ~waist level) then eventually swims on. That is unless the collars on then (Back NICK Back), at any hesitation and there's not a slow down .
    "They's Just DAWGS"; "I train dogs, Not papers"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned; early or late it still needs to be learned"

    GMHR HRCH Lakota MH (Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Storm MH (Upland/ Waterfowl Enthusiast)
    HR Banshi (problem child #3) - HR Trap (male-chocolate he's "special")

  12. #10
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    What is your water temperature? If its too cold then I would not do technical water stuff until it warms significantly. We can hunt our dogs in cold water and they are fine, but once you start adding pressure in cold water, that can lead to attitude issues. Pressure can be just too much technical stuff even without collar pressure.
    Sounds as if he has gotten test wise. Best to stay away from tests and work on it. Be sure to enforce the same line coming back from a mark or blind. He needs to be better conditioned to stay in a straight line until he just does it out of habit. When handling in the water be prepared to stop him the instant he dips that shoulder to go to the shore. Don't let him swim off line, get to the shore, then correct him. Stop him as soon as you see a change in his body language. Try to use friend to gradually increase the "test" atmosphere so he stays conditioned to go straight. When completely conditioned he should not need correction.
    You can practice similar concepts on land with cover changes, log jumps etc. Not the same as water but still can help with communication when the temptation to cheat the water is stronger than the land obstacle.
    Nate Baxter, DVM
    Clarksville, OH

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