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Thread: penalty for intensive lining

  1. #1

    Default penalty for intensive lining

    According to the rule book:
    29. In marking tests, a dog whose handler gives him a line in the direction of the fall, provided that such lining is accomplished briskly and precisely, should not by reason of such lining be outscored by a dog not so lined. However, conspicuously intensive lining is undesirable and should be penalized.

    Is the intent of this rule to penalize extensive (taking too much time) lining?

    How do you decide when lining should be penalized?

    How severe typically is the penalty?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Tobias's Avatar
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    It seems no judges want to touch this subject.

    Perhaps it would be easier to discuss with some video examples (made intentionally, not of dogs at actual events).
    The way I look at it, every dog is an opportunity to be a better trainer, and every day is a new day to be a better trainer to the same dog we trained yesterday.

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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcULmHsNl5w


    Not a Field trial,, but HT rulebook states similar rule..

    Always game to post a video! I expected to get dropped for this.. excessive lining.. ( I didn't).. She wouldn't settle down,, and was really distracted by the geese calling, and was looking at two old falls. . Master Test.. Water blind..

    This blind immediately after a triple mark. Blind was up the middle ,past the short bird (Hide on shore), and in between the other two marks . 1 mark was left of the blind, on face of dike, the other was on land, to right of blind.. back in that corner..

    She picks up the blind as she comes down the hill in the cattails.. End of vid..
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    Senior Member Daren Galloway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcULmHsNl5w


    Not a Field trial,, but HT rulebook states similar rule..

    Always game to post a video! I expected to get dropped for this.. excessive lining.. ( I didn't).. She wouldn't settle down,, and was really distracted by the geese calling, and was looking at two old falls. . Master Test.. Water blind..

    This blind immediately after a triple mark. Blind was up the middle ,past the short bird (Hide on shore), and in between the other two marks . 1 mark was left of the blind, on face of dike, the other was on land, to right of blind.. back in that corner..

    She picks up the blind as she comes down the hill in the cattails.. End of vid..
    Rule isn't intended for blinds. Only for marks.
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    Senior Member Daren Galloway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcULmHsNl5w


    Not a Field trial,, but HT rulebook states similar rule..

    Always game to post a video! I expected to get dropped for this.. excessive lining.. ( I didn't).. She wouldn't settle down,, and was really distracted by the geese calling, and was looking at two old falls. . Master Test.. Water blind..

    This blind immediately after a triple mark. Blind was up the middle ,past the short bird (Hide on shore), and in between the other two marks . 1 mark was left of the blind, on face of dike, the other was on land, to right of blind.. back in that corner..

    She picks up the blind as she comes down the hill in the cattails.. End of vid..
    If I saw this on a mark I would note "NFC" No...… Clue.
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  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Verbyla View Post

    conspicuously intensive lining is undesirable and should be penalized.

    Is the intent of this rule to penalize extensive (taking too much time) lining?

    How do you decide when lining should be penalized?

    How severe typically is the penalty?
    It is noted in my book but it is a note that takes care of itself once the dog is sent. Most dogs that require it do not make it to the next series.
    With the possible exception of someone trying to secondary select the need for "conspicuously intensive lining"( which is subjective) generally results in a poor marking performance for the dog.( a handle, pick-up or huge SOB hunt) unless they get lucky.

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  9. #7
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Dave

    A few thoughts:

    1) I think the intent is clear and your question a rhetorical one.

    2) I also think that Rulebook was written in a different era. The lines to the marks have gotten so tight - and the Areas of Fall so close - that it is hard to penalize the handlers from working to make certain that the dog is going to mark B and not returning to mark A.

    3) I mostly agree with Tim's comments above.

    4) That being said, at some point (and I can't specify the amount of time), I would probably say "You need to send your dog before I decide that you are conspicuously lining your dog."

    In the same, vein if I think you are taking too much time to show your dog the marks before calling for the birds, I will say "I'm going to be calling for the birds soon."

    Ted
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    Please don’t jump on me Ted and Tim but not all birds are thrown the same. Not all light is the same. So this effects what the dog sees and the time taken to line dog.
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    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    Please don’t jump on me Ted and Tim but not all birds are thrown the same. Not all light is the same. So this effects what the dog sees and the time taken to line dog.

    I understand. But, at some point, I may deem it excessive and warn you that I am about to intervene in a fashion you may not want.
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  12. #10

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    Thank you very much for the advice, the truth is that there are some things that I was completely unaware of. I have been a bull terrier miniature for a very short time and the truth is that I would like to know all these things. Thank you very much and greetings.

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