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Thread: Cheating water off point at end of blind

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenpoacher View Post
    Stop him as he is running the shore.
    Call him back to the point while applying low continuous collar pressure.
    Give the exact cast you want him to take again.
    I would be reluctant to follow this advice.
    Could create issues going forward IMHO

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  3. #12
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenpoacher View Post
    Stop him as he is running the shore.
    Call him back to the point while applying low continuous collar pressure.
    Give the exact cast you want him to take again.
    I would be reluctant to follow this advice.
    Could create issues going forward IMHO
    Train however you like.
    The people I learned it from have well over 100 years combined experience in training and field trials. The issues it created going forward for them have been lots of all age points and some FC and AFC dogs.
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenpoacher View Post
    Train however you like.
    The people I learned it from have well over 100 years combined experience in training and field trials. The issues it created going forward for them have been lots of all age points and some FC and AFC dogs.
    I'm sure your people like you, are infallible

    I prefer a dog to feel comfortable BOTH about getting in and out of water.
    Giving them a continuous burn can impede that goal IMHO; particularly in this situation where giving a continuous burn while getting a dog who ran the bank back to the point where he made the error.
    That can frequently take a considerable amount of time in which you are giving the continuous burn.
    I also believe that tingling on the neck can sometimes serve to make that task even more difficult and time consuming

    You do what you do and I'll do what I do Okay?

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  6. #14
    Senior Member ErinsEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenpoacher View Post
    Train however you like.
    The people I learned it from have well over 100 years combined experience in training and field trials. The issues it created going forward for them have been lots of all age points and some FC and AFC dogs.
    And no hot spots...ever? They can be problematic, especially in AA stakes
    Nancy P



    "We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." M.Facklam

  7. #15
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan View Post
    I'm sure your people like you, are infallible

    I prefer a dog to feel comfortable BOTH about getting in and out of water.
    Giving them a continuous burn can impede that goal IMHO; particularly in this situation where giving a continuous burn while getting a dog who ran the bank back to the point where he made the error.
    That can frequently take a considerable amount of time in which you are giving the continuous burn.
    I also believe that tingling on the neck can sometimes serve to make that task even more difficult and time consuming

    You do what you do and I'll do what I do Okay?
    Never trained with or even met anyone that has won more trials than they lost.

    The key to my original post was "low continuous pressure".
    My interpretation of the OP; the dog is given a cast off a point toward the blind across water, the dog runs the shore instead, knowing he is avoiding water and refusing the cast.

    Calmly calling the dog back to the point under low collar pressure creates a hot spot on the shore he will want to avoid. Harsher correction would certainly lead to problems and ruin the lesson.

    If there is any doubt (and even if there isn't) about the dog knowing what is expected, simplify and teach. Put a big pile of white bumpers or a flag at the blind, make it fun for the dog to bail off the point and into the water.

    As always a balance must be maintained with land and water, sometimes getting on points, sometimes swimming past, swimming down shore, angling in and out......................
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

  8. #16
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErinsEdge View Post
    And no hot spots...ever? They can be problematic, especially in AA stakes
    What would you do Nancy?
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

  9. #17
    Senior Member bamajeff's Avatar
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    The way I do it and have seen it done by others is whistle + verbal 'No! Here!' back on the point and give correction with indirect pressure as dog's sitting and then re-cast.
    HRCH Laney's Chocolate Roux MH QAA
    HRCH Full Steam Coaltrain RIP

  10. #18
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamajeff View Post
    The way I do it and have seen it done by others is whistle + verbal 'No! Here!' back on the point and give correction with indirect pressure as dog's sitting and then re-cast.
    Not sure I follow, when is the correction given?
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

  11. #19
    Senior Member bamajeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenpoacher View Post
    Not sure I follow, when is the correction given?
    As the dog is sitting back on the point followed by another whistle to stabilize. Some call this the double tap(whistle sit + nick + whistle). Handlers will double tap sometimes if they get in trouble in a trial and the dog 'thinks' he's been corrected.
    HRCH Laney's Chocolate Roux MH QAA
    HRCH Full Steam Coaltrain RIP

  12. #20
    Senior Member drunkenpoacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamajeff View Post
    As the dog is sitting back on the point
    I have, and have seen others, handle it in a similar way but the nick was always right after the initial whistle/sit, before being called back.
    Not saying you are wrong, just have not seen or done it that way.

    Talked about this subject a couple days ago while training with a group. There is a big difference in how individual dogs respond (or don't respond) to training methods. It's good to know what has worked for other dogs and handlers.
    "I'm thankful someone stood up to him, even if it was a woman." Franco 10/18/19

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